Hope everyone has been doing their reading up on "Catch-22" to prepare for tonight's episode. I'll be interested to see how the implications carried by the title will be played out in tonight's episode, and specifically Desmond's flashbacks. Happy brain bending!
Wednesday, April 18, 2007
CATCH-22 - SEASON 3, EPISODE 17
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Way to go Maven!
Reposted from previous thread:
All your avi's are so creative! It's the highlight of my week when you guys change them all! I just stick with my cute cat! (Maybe because I'm lazy!) LOL
Happy Birthday Eve, David!
How have you been? It's been a while since we got to chat on the phone. You've got a long wait for the episode, huh?
Thanks Mave, I'm excited about the big two-eight. Is that more or less than half your age? ;)
how's this, capcom???
it was a quick re-do, but eh.
Yeah, I'll have to stop posting here in about 15 min. I have 3 hours and 15 min to go! :( It's so frustrating knowing that most of you are about to watch!
hey david. good to see you.
Thanks for rubbing it in, David! LOL
What's up Chucklez? Nice roach motel. I've been thinking about you this week...I think you're the closest person I know to Virginia Tech. Been praying a lot for all involved in that tragedy.
Just messing with you Maven...it's a sign of affection.
Hey, happy birthday, David!
maven, I don't blame you - it took me forever to get the photo of Des to work.
Thanks Melissa! Happy Lost Day to you.
yeah, i WAS very close, but not so much right now. it's a crazy thing.
We're getting a good head start on this post! I have a feeling these last 5 episodes are going to give us PLENTY to talk about.
Anybody heard anything about this summer...I doubt there will be another TLE but...anything else? Or will it be as quiet as those winter months?
Hey, David! I know you're kidding! Anyway, I feel pretty young at heart! LOL How's Baby Penuel doing? Is Ali feeling okay? My daughter-in-law has had a tough first trimester.
Anyway, all you guys have fun tonight. I'll be playing catch-up (as usual), and hopefully find some left coasters and some very tired east coasters around later!
You know, I usually don't like it when commercials/trailers use music from other movies/TV shows, but I have to admit, the new Lost promo, with the music from Requiem for a Dream, really works.
anyone else think that "the time to watch is now" is a cheesy catch phrase for the rest of the season????
hmmm.........anagram? dad-blame "experience" still in my head!!! aaauuuggghhhh
David - I haven't listened to the official podcast yet, but I think dennis mentioned that they said there would be a game coming out for the xbox and PS3 this summer. Maybe we could all get those headsets and play online together! ;) LOL
Maven,
The pregnancy has been unusually smooth sailing. Pre-natal vitamins and lots of rest after teaching Kindergarten all day. Alli has always been super healthy. I'm sorry to hear about your daughter in law. Hopefully it will be better once the second trimester starts.
We'll see you in the morning.
Oh, and a friend of mine is having a baby in a couple of months. She just got 3D ultrasound photos taken. You should check that it - they are very cool!
Melissa,
You're right...they did talk about developing a game. But I don't know if it will be finished by the summer. If it is, playing online would be a blast.
By the way, just watching the last few minutes of "One of Us," did Aaron say "Claire"? I could've sworn I heard him say it.
Here we go...
see you all in an hour!
Melissa, I think those 3D ones cost extra...we don't have a lot of coin right now. Okay, I'm off to watch the epi. Peace out.
sweet!!!
Chuck,
That is sweet!!!!
ya know? hahaha.
THAT'S how you start a show!!
btw, saw disturbia last night. what a beginning to THAT
Do we think we'll see that opening scene again tonight?
Capcom, my silver dancers are because I was playing on another board today and we were generating Superhero names and mine was Silver Dancer and I had a sidekick, Caruthers. That's what they represent.
Wow, a major island mystery explained: Why Desmond calls everyone brotha!
aaahhhh.........and the origin of "brotha".
My prediction (100% spoiler free): Penny's coming?
woo hoo!!!!!!!!!!!
kate!!
heehee
joop lives in the foot.
So... Desmond's willing to let Charlie die to see Penny again? What a jerk.
desmond will die. he's gonna get it instead of charlie.
that's the only way to "stop the cycle of visions" and charlie's pending death
Well the title of the episode is Catch 22. Maybe he won't sacrifice Charlie.
The First Aid kit is marked with a Civil Defense logo like you would have seen during the Cold War and maybe even back to WWII. And it looks like Charlie has a Dharma notebook.
Did anyone else have a loud annoying clicking during the scene where Desmond explained to Hurley his flashes are like a jigsaw puzzle?
oh give me a break kate.
such a childish act.
freakin jin and his stories!! hahaha, ooohhh man, i swear. that was a good one!
ummmm.............helicopter??
splash. gee........how'd i know that was gonna' happen?
Kate is a skank. If she says Jack's name in the heat of the moment, that will be the JTS or as one blog puts it Fling the Spider moment.
Jin telling the story of the guy with the hook was awesome.
I've got some stuff on Mt. Moriah, but I'll bring it later.
sawyer: "you two arguing over who's your favorite other"??
hahahahahaha!!!!
So is the FB pre-Penny I'm guessing?
Ruth is another Biblical name.
Did Charlie sign his own death sentence by insisting they wait until morning?
The flashback is definitely Pre-Penny. 6 years doesn't fit into the timeline anywhere else, I think.
Man, everyone on the island has some major relationship/parent problem. Jack's is too much commitment ("Commitment is what makes you tick, Jack. You just need to know when to let go.") Desmond's is fear of commitment.
yeah, i'd say so.
and yes. charlie pretty much kept the vision in play.
benard????
That's my man Des. I knew he wouldn't let him die. Not to say Charlie still won't before it's over it is lost.
They're just dropping Bernard in there as a shoutout to the "Bernard and Rose have disappeared" people. Also, Lindelof and Cuse mentioned
MINOR SPOILER
Rose and Bernard will be playing a part in the storyline at some point in the future.
MINOR SPOILER
im pissed at kate . that moment wasnt exciting . at all .
but this epi is really trippin me out .
oh i know. i just thought it was convenient to toss a name out like that.
yeah, kate's becoming good for nothing but showing off her body. hahaha
mmmmmmm......
note to desmond: shut up already
kate and desmond are really chaffing my willie right now.
penny has a weird top lip. anyone else notice?
duh. knew it wouldn't be penny.
pfft....hahahahahahaha!!!!
well that was .. pointless .
The woman in the picture. Was that the clock shop woman. Where Des got his ring.
what was the "big event" of the episode ? still not knowing what the hell is going on ?
Hmm. I was actually expecting it to be one of the Portugese guys from the sub, not a woman. Although I think I read a spoiler about a new female character coming to the island- so I shouldn't have been so daft.
All I was thinking during that scene, though, was "Please let Penny not be dead." I had no idea I wanted her alive that much!
Yes Sayid's Girl. I just tried to post that, but *&^%% Blogger prevented me.
I think the big thing is that Fate in the form of Mrs. Hawking is directing Desmond down his path. It would have been cool if she'd been the one who landed on the Island.
So how did Penny's people find the Island? And what brought the helicopter down? Is there something about the atmosphere around the Island that changes the laws of physics with regards to drag, lift, whatever it is that makes things fly?
Right! That was Mrs. Ringlady!!!!! Whoa.
I know Dark, I didn't want "Penneh" to die either. :-)
Nice avi Chuck! And I like your new superhero Sliver Dancer Memphish.
Maven, we love your kitty!!!
So Des has always been destined to be on the island. How and why? Is he the key to it all?
Definitely Penny and Desmond are the key to it all. Very little doubt in my mind on that point.
Maybe after the Purpling, anything can get to the island, that's why Ben is sh***ing about people leaving now.
The helo probably just came down in the storm, it's hard to keep them in the air on good days, let alone stormy nights.
I wonder who the girl is she knew Desmond's name.
Brotha Whatshisname really seemed to have a bead on Desmond's purpose in life, at least to the point of where Des doesn't belong anyway. Wonder if he got it from Mrs. Ringlady?
Was it just me or did Dezz's ex-fiance look way too young for him?
Sayidsgirl, have you come over to the Dezzy side with your new avi? :o)
"I wonder who the girl is she knew Desmond's name."
Probably one of the team of crack Portugese explorers and submarine operators hired by Penny.
Hey, with enough time and money, you can do anything!
that was the ringlady in brother whatevers picture ??
No not exactly. :)
Sayid has always been my favorite but since they introduced Desmond he's definately my second favorite. Just thought I'd honor him tonight since it was his episode. Sayid will be back tomorrow.
The girl in the helicopter was looking for Desmond. She was sent by the Portugese speaking people, that's why her bag had a copy of ARDIL-22 (Portugese for Catch-22) and it had the Des/Penny picture in it.
I don't know why she'd be alone though. And the storm didn't hit until after the crash.
Also, it would be the case that saving Charlie would have allowed them to get to Penny/girl faster than letting Charlie die. If Charlie had died, they'd have lingered instead of moving on towards the parachute. So that part doesn't make sense to me. Unless Desmond thinks that saving Charlie changed it from being Penny to being the girl. And she better not die. And why would the phone not work?
and what was the parachuter lady wearing .. some scary suit that creeped me out :(
Man, my husband distracted me during that scene and I missed the photo! Grrrr.....
Best line of the night: "Do you need me to make you a mix tape or something?" How can Kate resist him?
Happy Lost Day!
First thoughts
-Yes, that was Mrs. Hawking in the picture. That was a nice way to make the circular storyline carry through, without having to do another "time travel" episode.
-Can helicopters function in Antarctic temperatures? Could the helicopter have come from that far? Antarctica to Australia for refueling, Australia to the Island sputter sputter splash. The fact that all these people helping Penny are Portuguese cannot be coincidence.
-It's no longer a spoiler now, since we've seen her face. According to the ABC press release, the name of the parachutist is Naomi. Put that together with Desmond's ex (Ruth) and you've got some mighty potent Biblical allusion. Of course, it gets confused by the fact that Desmond was no longer with Ruth.
-Something tells me the wet end of the cable is the important end. I don't think the cable was used in this episode just as a marker for where to enter the jungle. I know the theory was a sonar array for the subs, but why couldn't it be something more analog, like a lit beacon?
Parachute girl seemed like she was ready to parachute down. She didn't just throw on a parachute when the chopper died - she was all suited up and carrying her belongings with her. I think she was anticipating the chopper going down.
Oh, and I'm guessing Ruth is a non-practicing Catholic. Yeesh.
TBP, are you thinking that the beacon might even be working now?
I really think there is something about the Island that causes things to crash. The helicopter sounded fine, and then it didn't and there were no storms and no buttons to be pushed. What happened to it.
And Sara, the reason she was wearing that suit was that she was very high up in the atmosphere and that allowed her to maintain pressure and communications. It's similar to the stuff you see the guys in in Top Gun.
Did anyone else get the impression that Des was feeling like the grumpy dad, leading three little kids on a camping trip? I especially thought so when they were whistling on the beach. Des looked like he was about to start yelling "I will turn this thing around!"
I love the interplay between Hurley, Charlie and Jin. That's been missing a bit lately, so I'm glad they brought it back in.
Oh, so then you'll be going back over to the dark side again Sayidsgirl. :o)
Right EF, me too. Looked like some old fashioned kind of flightsuit. Maybe just because it was wet.
Oops, you're right about the storm! It was just very cloudy looking during the crash, especially when they showed the beacon.
memphish, simple electricity still works on the Island. So, let's say at the very least, it's a light buoy. That would be something. It would be nice if we knew if the distress signal is still broadcasting. If it is, then there could just as easily be a radio beacon at the wet end of the cable too.
Oh, David - I don't know if you'll see this, but my friend got her 3D images free, because they had a new tech who was practicing. Something to watch out for. :)
It's odd to me that a Scottish Desmond would look to hide in the Catholic church. Catholics are a great minority in Scotland (as are most Christians these days.) Carlisle, where Penny was going is in Northwest England near the Scottish border.
So was this before or after Des's dad died because it would be pretty hard to take care of your 3 brothers on a novice's income. Also where does the almost a doctor thing come in? Desmond said in FBYE that he and Penny had been together only 2 years.
Interesting episode... I really kept waiting for Charlie to die!
It really is starting to seem like Desmond is surrounded by women/girls just like the airport scene when Locke is trying to get his voice back at the beginning of the season. So, is this new girl another one from his past? She knew his name!
Capcom
What do you mean the dark side? ;)
How's this avatar?
I made it awhile back.
My two favorite parts were...
The Nod from Dezzi to Jack about the taping of his ankle pre-island.
Sawyer saying if we don't play ping pong every 108 minutes the island will explode.
Charlie appears to be writing songs in a Dharma note book, good thing Boone Found all those pens... lol
The wine cost $108 Quid
They only made 108 cases... hhmmmmmmm
And I am sorry in advance for the lenggth of this post.
Here is the master list of my little clay creation.
1 CHARLIE'S GUITAR
2 SAWYER’S TREE FROG
3 THE NUMBERS 4,8,15,16,23,42
4 THE SWAN SYMBOL
5 THE TEDDY BEAR
6 THE HYDRA SYMBOL
7 DESMONDS BOAT
8 THE POLAR BEAR CAGES BUTTON
9 HEROIN BAGGIES
10 THE OTHERS TENTS
11 THE FISH BISCUIT
12 JIN'S HALF HAND CUFF
13 PEANUT BUTTER JAR
14 CHARLIE'S DRIVE SHAFT RING
15 EXECUTE BUTTON
16 WIDMORE PREGNANCY TEST
17 OCEANIC WATER BOTTLE
18 VACCINE BOTTLE
19 ETHAN'S SYRINGE
20 KATE'S TOY PLANE
21 THE HALIBURTON CASE
22 THE COMPASS
23 HURLY'S MILK CONTAINER
24 SAYID’S PLIERS
25 CLUCKIN CHICKEN LOGO
26 THE REAL HENRY GALE’S $20 BILL
27 LAUNDRY DETERGENT
28 ENGINE EATING GARY TROUP
29 BAT GAMMON DICE
30 THE FOUR TOED STATUE
31 WALT'S POLAR BEAR TEDDY BEAR
32 THE DHARMA SHARK
33 THE STAFF STATIONS CADUCEUS
34 THE MESSAGE BOTTLE
35 THE QUARANTINE HATCH DOOR
36 THE PNEUMATIC TUBE CONTAINER
37 THE BEACH CRAFT
38 THE ARROW STATION ARROW
39 KATE'S DRESS
40 THE GEODESIC DOME
41 THE BAD TWIN MANUSCRIPT
42 THE SWAN FAIL-SAFE KEY
43 EKO’S JESUS STICK
44 THE SWAN ORIENTATION FILM CANISTER
45 THE SWAN COMPUTER
46 THE SWAN COUNTER
47 LOCKE’S WHEEL CHAIR
48 BERNARD'S “S” ROCKS
49 THE SECOND RAFT W/ SAIL AND CABIN
50 CHARLIE'S ETHAN KILLING HANDGUN
51 LOCKE’S KNIFE
52 THE COCKPIT
53 THE FUSELAGE
54 THE TAIL SECTION
55 THE HURLEY BIRD
56 SUNS WEDDING RING
57 SOME DYNAMITE
58 THE PLANES RADIO
59 REAUSUES MAP
60 A GOLF CLUB, BALL, AND FLAG
61 SMOKE MONSTER
62 THE BLACK ROCK
63 THE ARMORY COMBINATION DIAL
64 THE WHITE AND BLACK STONES
65 HURLY'S LOTTO TICKET
66 PEARL ORIENTATION TAPE
67 THE PIER (PALLA FERRY)
68 MICHAEL'S LIST
69 HURLEY/WALT'S COMIC BOOK
70 SAWYERS GLASSES
71 ETHAN'S CANTEEN
72 JIN'S WATCH (SUN’S FATHERS)
73 THE OTHERS (BLOWN UP) SUBMARINE
74 SOME FLAME STATION C4
75 THE OTHERS TORCHES
76 ALEX'S BOAT
77 A #8 BUNNY
78 A DHARMA BEER
79 N**** AND P****’S DIAMONDS
80 P****’S NICORETTE GUM
81 A MEDUSA SPIDER
82 MIKHAIL'S EYE PATCH
83 A DHARMA CEREAL BOX
84 EKO’S CROSS
85 THE BLAST DOOR MAP
86 CHRISTIANS COFFIN
87 THE FLAME SYMBOL
88 THE FLAME’S SATELLITE DISH
89 THE CLUCKIN METEORITE
90 PING PONG PADDLES AND BALL
91 A CARD BOARD BOX
92 KATE'S BLACK HORSE
93 ALEX’S SLING SHOT
94 HENRY GALE’S HOT AIR BALLOON
95 KATE'S WANTED POSTER
96 THREE SUB SONIC FENCE PYLONS
97 SAYID’S AK47
98 THE PEARL MONITORS
99 MCCUTCHEONS WHISKEY BOTTLE
100 A TONKA TRUCK
101 KATE'S POOL STICK
102 JACKS CHEESEBURGER
103 A SMOKE GRENADE
104 THE BIBLE WITH FILM STRIP
105 A SEAGULL
106 DAVE’S SLIPPER
107 AN APOLLO BAR
108 A VIRGIN MARY STATUE
Sorry gotta hit the sack.
Goodnight all.
I don't think that helo crews need pressurized flightsuits, those are only for when you are pulling mega-G's and the blood rushes to your legs. Even if a helo is high up I think that you only need an O2 mask.
The girl didn't necessarily have to fly from the arctic. They could have radio'd for someone closer to make the run to the South Pacific maybe?
I don't think this girl knows Desmond only that she's looking for him, sent by Penny.
This new girl, Ruth was quite interesting. I wonder what or who knocked Desmond on his back the week before the wedding. I'm guessing it was Mrs. Hawking's friend/son the monk.
I mean darkside, because Sayid is one of those kind of interesting dark and brooding guys. :o) Not that Dez doesn't brood and sulk as well!
Could he have almost been a doctor before all this? Or maybe this:
1) Des almost marries Ruth (who must have been about 12 at the time, I think - yeesh)
2) Des joins the church
3) Des gets fired and meets Penny
4) Des works for the Theatre
5) Des and Penny break up
6) Des goes to med school
7) Des joins the army
8) Des is arrested and discharged
9) Des enters the race around the world
Okay, that makes no sense. Nevermind. :) I guess, in FBYE, he says they were together for 2 years when he was going to propose, but we don't know how much time passed between then and the boat race. I think FBYE takes place as early as 1995 or 1996, which means that as many as 6 years could pass between then and the race.
memphish - The Catholic angle might explain the animosity/disbelief Ruth and her brother held for Desmond's epiphany. According to the folks at Wikipedia, Celtic (the football/soccer squad that Desmond loves) is traditionally Catholic in its fanbase, while Rangers is the Protestant rival. Maybe the disdain all boils down to which side you cheer.
PS - Desmond was signing the Celtic Song when he was drunk at the monastery.
So I just freeze-framed one of the flashes in the promo: It's the Black Rock. Why would they be going back there? More dynamite?
I just realized there was no Sayid this episode.
To me this was a strange episode what with all Desmond's flashes and flashbacks and actual stuff and the incredibly awkward love triangle/square. I stand by my Kate is a skank statement.
You're right Memphish, Dez's life is a smorgasbord of info that needs to be pieced together! Especially the "almost a doctor" part, like you said.
Good call on the ankle comment Ded, I missed the connection. Tx for the list too.
memphish - I agree about Kate. You can tell that Sawyer really cares for her, and she's treating him like dirt.
Too right Memphish about Kate. What a mixed up chick. I'm glad that Sawyer found her out and told her so.
Capcom
yes I do like dark brooding men who are intelegent. Des and Sayid both are.
Why were there beacons flashing on the flight suit? Was the pilot supposed to track her?
The beacon on the flight suit is for rescue if/when you go down.
Thanks Capcom
That was kind of a duh moment.
Never thought of that.
Thanks TBP on that Celtic thing. I kept wondering from the accents if we were in Ireland or Scotland most of the time. Oh well.
So we've got Ruth and Naomi. Wouldn't it be an interesting twist is Ruth sent Naomi, but I don't think that's the case. Weird name choices though.
For those who don't know. Naomi was an Israelite who moved to Moab. Her sons marry girls from Moab, one of which is Ruth. Husband and sons die. Naomi decides to go home. Ruth (but not Orpah the other daughter-in-law) goes with her. The whither thou goest, I will go you hear in weddings comes from the book of Ruth. Ruth later marries Boaz and is the great-grandmother of King David and thus in the lineage of Jesus.
Also Mount Moriah referenced several times tonight was the mountain Abraham went to to sacrifice Isaac per God's order. Isaac is later the father of Jacob who's the father of Benjamin. King David later hides there and Solomon builds his temple there. It's also believed by some that it was later where Jesus was crucified.
Lostpedia says that Desmond proposed to Penny in 1996. If they'd been together for 2 years, one could presume that the flashbacks tonight took place no earlier than late 1993. That would put Desmond's relationship with Ruth somewhere in the 1986-1994 range. He left prison on 4/4/99, and started the race in (probably) early 2001.
This guy has one full datebook.
Right TBP, that's probably the second reason why her brother punched him out! :o)
I guess Des could have been an army medic - that would kill two birds with one stone.
Ruth had a great line about the closest thing Desmond had ever had to a religious experience was her.
Looks like this Boaz dumped Ruth, Memphish. :o) That's true about the wedding thing.
memphish - didn't Ruth say the closest thing he ever had to a religious experience was when the Celtics won?
all right, ladies and librarians - I've been working at home all night, and it's time to go to bed before my head explodes.
Maybe I'll dream about Des tonight. :) The last two nights, I've been dreaming about work, so I could use the break!
Good night!
Could be Melissa. I don't think I wrote it down.
So Desmond's big theme again is that he's a coward. What do we know about that?
He leaves a girl at the altar.
He leaves Penny.
What else has he done that's cowardly?
Also what was the Catch 22 in the episode. Again I think letting Charlie die would have been counter-productive to reaching the parachute-ee.
Maybe the Catch-22 is that Dez is dammed if does and damned if he doesn't? I mean with the whole future thing, not knowing which act or move that he makes will change the picture on the puzzle box?
But I didn't read Doc Jensen yet, he probably has it correct.
Why is Jack so supremely uninterested in Hurley and Desmond's obvious lie? Why isn't he more concerned when the four amigos go camping with his First Aid Kit? Where did that kit come from? The barracks. It didn't have Dharma branding, it had Civil Defense branding like you might have found in a bomb or tornado shelter.
I hope that Jack has made it his mission to protect the LOSTies from Juliet while having her in their midst. I hope he doesn't let me down on this becasue otherwise he's a giant putz.
True about Jack Memphish. And BTW, I could almost hear you groan when Jules asked Jack if his dad didn't teach him carpentry! Don't ask him about his dad, noooooooooooo!
The only good thing that Bai Ling ever said in SIASL was I don't care about your dad.
LMAO! :o)
Won't it be funny if the parachute chick only speaks Portugese and now Paolo is dead?
Then Sawyer will be calling her Chewie too! You're too funny!
Night Capcom! Looks like it's just us and bed is calling. Catch the rest of you tomorrow.
Yep, just you and me here Silver, I'm checking out too after I finish Doc's article.
Ciao all, till tomorrow!
What software needs to be installed for this live podcast tommorrow?
memphish - The line was that the closest thing she (Ruth) ever saw to a religious experience for Desmond was when Celtic (not to be confused with the Celtics, which is US basketball) won "the cup."
I was trying to place the flashbacks in time by that frame, but there are too damn many cups in Euro football to accurately peg it. But it's probably the late 80's.
The novel Catch-22 is prime LOST fodder. But (again, leaning on Wikipedia) read this brief description and tell me what it sounds like.
The novel follows Captain John Yossarian, a U.S. Army Air Forces B-25 bombardier, and a number of other characters. Most events occur while the airmen of the Fighting 256th (or "two to the fighting eighth power") Squadron are based on the island of Pianosa, west of Italy. Many events in the book are repeatedly described from differing points of view, so the reader learns more about the event from each iteration. Furthermore, the events are referred to as if the reader already knows all about them. The pacing of Catch-22 is frenetic, its tenor intellectual, and its humor largely absurd, but interspersed with grisly moments of realism.
Is that describing Catch-22 or LOST?
capcom, speaking of Doc Jensen's teaser column (and this will totally out me as a complete dork), I was just making a joke about Hegelian dialectics yesterday, and today he includes that very subject in his column. Crazy.
good stuff on Catch 22, bookpolice. I'm re-watching and noticed the wine label has a 1995 date on it, if that helps.
My take on the Catch-22 was if Desmond let Charlie die he would find Penny. If he let Charlie live he might not find Penny. He didn't want to let Charlie die but he didn't want to lose Penny either.
oops I see Capcom basicly said what I did but worded it differently. Sorry about that.
I agree, sayid'sgirl. And I like Sayid wayyy better than Desmond! Des has bothered me ever since he talked to Penny at the stadium where he runs into Jack.
Hello everyone! That was a mighty-interesting episode. My friends and I immediately noticed that the picture on the monk's desk was of him and Mrs. Hawking. I've got to give it to DarkUFO... he called it that the Naomi chick would have the picture of Desmond and Penny on her in light of some spoilers.
Last but not least, I want to hold my place. Goodnight everyone!
codysmom
Oh yeah Sayid will always be my favorite.
Desmond's only draw back is that he is an admitted coward. How ever I'm still waiting to see what his greatest act of cowardice is that he is trying to redeem himself for.
Good catch on the wine label date I skimmed back through the episode and missed that the second time.
The way Desmond treated Ruth and Penny is a big drawback in my mind! The thing that's getting me is the fact that the Abbot had a picture of him and Mrs. Hawking on his desk. So, twice now Desmond has run from his fiance's and each time it was right after seeing the abbot or Mrs. Hawking. Are they controlling him somehow?
Maven, I see it's a few minutes before your timezone gets to enjoy the splendors of LOST. Before I go to bed, I just wanted to wish you a wonderful LOST watching experience! Can't wait to hear what you have to say.
That is a good point. They do seem to be guiding him to his "destiny" and it seems like they don't want him married.
Desmond never felt worthy of Penny which is silly she told him many times it didn't matter to her. But I think he's leaving these women for a deeper reason. What I have know idea. Or maybe he's just a cad as they say.
Well it's getting late and I've got to get up and get my daughter to school in the morning.
Talk to you all tomorrow.
good-nite, sayid'sgirl! Not sure if I'll stay up much longer..
Seeing the book with the Des/Penny picture coming out of the backpack was interesting, but I also really want to see what those papers wrapped up in plastic were!
Seems like everyone went to bed early tonight. Hasta luego, kids!
OK, it's late and I'm getting tired and probably won't last til Maven is here, but... crazy thought ... Mrs. Hawking is HIM!!!
Hey, who ever is left! I just finished and played a quick catchup. Will post a few thoughts shortly...
Here are some thoughts (gut reactions only):
1. Why does Charlie let his guitar get wet? Seems to me water wouldn't be good for guitars.
2. Why is the location of the cable so important to Des? How does he know that?
3. Well, now we know why "brotha" is used by Des so much!
4. Interesting that he relates his flashes as puzzle pieces to a puzzle with no picture on the box.
5. The whole Kate/Sawyer thing is disturbing. Felt so bad for Sawyer when he figured out Kate used him!
6. How did Kate know about Sawyer's no nickname bet?
7. The monastery's wine is label Moriah Vineyard and dated 1995.
8. Funny line: Jack to Kate: Sure something will go wrong soon enough." Does he know something?
9. Campfire was so typical: Guitar strumming, marshmellows and scary story with flashlight!
10. Also trying to place Des' relationship with Ruth. If he dated her 6 years and the wine is labeled 1995, that would put the start of dating her in 1989. But later, when Des is loading the wine in Penny's car, the boxes are dated 1989. What gives?
11. Funny that Ruth mentions that is a "Shepherd" found you (passed out in the gutter) you'd be with sheep now! Of course, Shepherd being Jack and Christian's last name.
12. Classic Sawyer: "You two arguing over who's your favorite other?" and they have to play ping pong every 108 minutes!
13. Desmond struggles with whether or not he's going to sacrifice Charlie. He doesn't want to change anything so he can see Penny again. Very close to the Isaac/Abraham test from God.
14. Of course, the 108 cases of wine bottled by monastery.
15. Hurley: "Even if I spoke Korean, it wouldn't make sense." LOL
16. Picture on Head Monk's desk was himself with Mrs. Hawkings!
That's all for now.. BTW: Capcom, my cat, Pumpkin, thanks you!
Placeholder!
LOL naomi only speaks portuguese and paolo is dead...LOL serves us all right for insisting they kill paolo and nikki...
like locke blowing up the communications and transportation, not to mention the original hatch. they are so screwed beyond what they can imagine...
oops!
night all, i'll check in again in the daylight for the post-hash
Place Marker for the AM!!! g'nite everyone!
Morning LoCos.
The more I reflect upon it, that was a strange little episode in the midst of our jam-packed action season.
Here's my crazy theory for the morning heading into the 2-hour season finale (I hope y'all read that in announcer voice.) I think Jack is some sort of Manchurian Candidate and may well be Jacob. Further, I think his conditioning was his being raised by Christian and I think he may have been placed, i.e. raised by another. I don't who placed him (Ben? Hanso?) or for what purpose, but I think Juliet's odd little "You're father didn't teach you to hammer" line is leading up to this revelation. Maybe severe alcohol intake will trigger it if he can get a bottle away from our drunk Scotsman which would explain Jack's "he taught me how to drink" line.
I apologize to Ruth for impugning her purity last night. It makes more sense that your favorite team's victory is religious than her anyway. Maybe Takes a Village's daughter could address that with the 2 big Florida wins this season.
My Jack idea has made me wonder now who in our LOSTies may have been raised by another:
Sawyer was after his parents' deaths,
Kate was partially raised by a man she wasn't biologically related to,
Locke, of course.
That's all I can think of at this early hour.
I wish we'd seen the Catholic head honcho from Eko's flashback or Eko himself cross with Desmond while he was in the Abbey. "How Do You Solve a Problem Like a Desmond" anyone? Maybe Barenaked Hurley" will take up the challenge.
I agree with everyone who said that Desmond's Catch 22 was deciding to save Charlie and the paralells between Charlie and Boone being "sacrifices someone's demanding." That fits in with the Abraham/Isaac story and what Desmond says about how God could have not demanded the sacrifice in the first place. But do you really think that Desmond believes that saving Charlie changed who came out of the helicopter? I suppose Mrs. Hawking and her minions have been messing with him enough for him to believe that.
Sorry for the string of posts, but I'm here and I hope everyone else is wise enough to still be sleeping.
Hey Memphish!
Hey Locos
Hoping to see the ep today...
was it worth watching??
Hi IEAL, What Lost episode isn't worth watching? It wasn't my favorite this year, but it had some surprises. The FB was unexpected (by me at least); new elements were added on the Island; the love triangle/polygon reached new lows. I'm now pulling for Sack or Jawyer or whatever you might call that because Kate's at the bottom of my list right now.
In the episode they talk about jigsaw puzzles and pieces fitting in and not having the picture on the cover which makes it harder to figure out. This is just such an episode.
Any guesses on where the hula doll came from? Was it dashboard decoration in the helicopter?
Does anyone understand the physics of ejecting from a helicopter?
not a clue memphish, sorry!
Do you know where the next Promo is for D.O.C?
It's not on Lost-media yet.
IEAL,
DarkUFO appears to have it.
Thanks Memphish...
Get Catch-22 delivered to my desk in an hour - woo hoo!
Good Morning Locos, a tremendous Thursday to you-
memphish, what is up? I've been neck deep in our office move and we finally move this w/e. I haven't had time to do anything, much less keep up with Locos. I can't wait to get settled in at our new office space and get back to my studies in Lostology. I did manage to watch 'Catch 22' last night, but on west coast time. Thank God for dvr's.
A few things I noticed, which I'm sure have been mentioned because I haven't had time to read/scan this thread.
1. The Abraham/Isaac relgious mention by Desmond.
2. The old lady that told Desmond not to by the ring in 'Flashes Before Your Eyes' was in the pic with Desmonds ex-monk boss on his desk.
3. That hula doll looked very familiar. I haven't placed it yet, but I believe we have seen it in a previous episode.
4. The way Penny and Desmond meet was very interesting. It reminded me of what Mulder said in one of my all-time favorite episodes of 'The X-Files', 'If coincidences are coincidences, why do they seem so contrived.'
5. Sawyer figuring out why Kate wanted to get horizontal after she obviously wasn't in the 'mood' earlier in the day for some afternoon delight.
6. Sawyer's comment to Jack and Jules on them discussing who's their favorite other, classic Sawyer.
7. And post 'One of Us', the ongoing 'island curse' of doing the horizontal mambo, Goodwin buying it in a fight with Ana Lucia after he and Jules got busy a couple of days earlier.
8. Who the heck was that middle eastern helicopter pilot and was she by herself? Maybe the co-pilot is floating in the ocean needing some assistance.
All in all a great episode and a fantastic break from my JOB! Will try to catch up later, but headed off for more fun and games at the moving party at work!
Happy Birthday David!
Have a good one Locos, I'm out-
Good morning Locos.
memphish... maybe the hula doll came from Hurley's Dharma van? Seems the kinda thing that might be on the dashboard. Which brings up another question -- where is the van?
Happy B-day David (you young pup)!
Happy Birthday David!
cul8r JGZ350. Really good point about sex leading to death for Goodwin. I missed that last week, and he took it in the gut too, though with a sharp stick instead of a bullet. I really hope Sawyer doesn't die though. He has the best lines. But he'll have to die before I can accept Jate at this point. I don't see Jack betraying his friend, unlike a certain sexually-active brunette I could name.
ib4uc, good point about the Dharma van. It does look like something that Roger Workman would have had. Was it in Hurley's TTID flashback even maybe?
Was Charlie's ghost story about this guy?
Just watched the ep,
something I noticed was in Desmonds first Flashback, after charlie has had the arrow through the throat, Des see's him holding the parachute. so he was obviously always going to save Charlie...
Good catch IEAL. So what does that mean about the reliability of Desmond's flashes?
who knows - It's all a bit confusing!
Updating my Jack is a Manchurian Candidate theory. I think he and Sawyer are separated at birth twins and that someone (Ben? Jacob? Alvar? Widmore?) was conducting a nature vs. nurture experiment on the 2 of them.
Thank you memphish, ib4uc, and jgz350! I feel like TPTB knew my birthday was coming up and they knew that I loved the Bible...they gave me "Catch-22" as a gift. How kind of them!
Abraham, Isaac, Moriah, David (Desmond's Middle Name), Jacob, Benjamin, Ruth, Naomi, sacrifice, provision, etc. My head is swimming with ideas for storiesofthelost.com.
Thanks to memphish for the post at 4/18/2007 08:38:00 PM. Good summary of Biblical connections. I'm headed out for my commute. Happy discussions.
memphish,
I like the Manchurian Candidate theory. Who was nature and who was nurture? :)
Good morning, all!
A couple of things:
TBP made me realize that I was REALLY tired last night and typed "the Celtics" instead of just "Celtic" - I'm always good for making myself look a little dumb. :)
memphish - I think Hurley's ghost story was about El Chupacabra, the goat sucker, which I actually thought was cool because it's a Mexican myth. Nice tie into Hurley's heritage.
Also good point about sex leading to death - although Sawyer has had sex before (with Ana Lu-Lu) and survived, although of course she didn't. Maybe Kate's going to get the gut shot this time.
I just read Doc Jensen's post from yesterday about Nietzsche and Kierkegaard and I remember now why I really disliked that part of the philosophy class my college required me to take.
Here is today's Doc Jensen recap.
Melissa_lossa, thanks for the myth correction. I couldn't remember DJ Dan's mythic beastie name and didn't recognize Hurley's.
I also just want to say how grateful I am to have all of you here who can explain the biblical references to me. As a non-Christian, I have vague knowledge of the famous stories (Noah had a boat, right?) but I'm LOST most of the time. Thank you!
Memphish,
here is what i could find about helicopter ejection seats
"The Kamov Ka-50 was the first helicopter to be fitted with an ejection seat. The system is very similar to that of a conventional fixed-wing aircraft; the main rotor is equipped with explosive bolts and is designed to disintegrate moments before the seat rocket is fired."
So the blades explode first, then the seat can be ejected upwards; but there was no visable explosion that i remember.
As for the parachutist
MINOR SPOILER
Actress Marsha Thomason (who plays Naomi) is English. So in my opinion, they would not make her character speak only portuguese, becuase if that is what TPTB wanted, why not hire a Brazuilian or Portuguese actress?
MINOR SPOILER
memphish - I don't know if DJ Dan's beast ever had a name. And I never would have caught the Chupacabra reference if it hadn't been kind of a running joke on the X-Files.
Speaking of X-Files - jgz350, if you're stilla round, what episode is your quote about coincidences from? I recognize it, but I can't place it.
and I still love Kate!
Happy birthay David!
Warning there is a spoiler in Doc Jensen's recap. @#$#@$ It's in the paragraph that starts And then, the moment of decision arrived. Charlie tripped the wire.
New crazy theory Desmond and Jack are the same person. Or maybe Desmond, Jack and Sawyer are triplets separated at birth. I swear I read that before The Brothers Karamozov line in Doc Jensen's article. But now I think there were 4 separated at birth brothers and Ben is the 4th one.
Was it just me or was having to watch Charlie get shot through the neck over and over throughout the episode extra gruesome? Couldn't they have shot him in the chest or something?
BTW, I'm with Hurley; the Flash would definetely beat Superman in a foot race. (But I have always secretly disliked Supe)
When did Desmond ever see that it was Penny in the parachute. Just because of a photograph?? Seems kinda odd to me! It was never going to be Penny either in my opinion.
Did I hear this wrong, or did Hurley and Charlie switch sides in the Superman/Flash debate from Desmond's original vision to actual events? I thought in the vision, Hurley was arguing for Superman, but at the end, it was Charlie. That would mean that things had already gone awry, and the vision was not playing out exactly as it was meant to before Desmond saved Charlie.
I'm pretty sure Hurley was always for the Flash. According to LOSTpedia, Hurley's pre-flight comic book was The Flash.
Good Morning LoCos
Happy Birthday David
jgz350
#8 I never thought of it that way if she was the pilot and wasn't alone maybe Penny ended up in the ocean.
Just as a side-note, this episode was co-written by comic book guru Brian K. Vaughan, so the superhero debate may be an inside joke, as well.
This was Vaughan's first episode of Lost. The guy's a genius. I highly recommend his comics!
From Lostpedia:
"The hula doll found in the jungle looks like Hurley's doll in his Hummer."
acewebguy... I knew I saw a hula doll before, just couldn't remember where. Thanks.
Hurley was for the Flash in the Flash... I remember mostly because of the "No breaking walls comment" Hurry said... followed by Charlie asking if there were anymore rules.
MAJOR SPOILER
I figured out finally what is going on with the show.
It's my nightmare.
I'm going to wake up and figure out that this show that's been the
That's right the last episode you'll ever see of Lost is me waking up in a cold sweat, yawning, and scratching my... well you know.
Anyway... yes... that must be it. Lost has just been a bad dream I've been having.
MAJOR SPOILER
BTW: loved the tie in with the photo on the Monk's desk. He introduces Dez to Penny and Mrs. Hawking takes her away.
It should have been Mrs. Hawking, not Libby that gave Desmond the sailboat. My new theory -- Libby is Mrs. Hawking's daughter or daughter-in-law.
Morning all and Happy 28th Birthday, David!
Re the helicopter and Naomi ejecting: Didn't it seem that the helicopter crashed pretty far out in the ocean? I know they started hearing the copter near the island and what they heard didn't sound right for a copter, but Naomi must have bailed before the copter had trouble for her to so far inland and the copter crashing so far out at sea (there were storm clouds which could have caused the crash -- I'm no helicopter pilot expert though!)
The connections on this show are simply amazing, aren't they? Now we have Monk Campbell and Mrs. Hawking in cahoots manipulating Desmond towards his destiny. That picture on the desk was such a WOW moment.
Also, by Desmond saving Charlie....does that manipulation of the puzzle change who was the parachutist? Would it have been Penny if Charlie died?
Hello Everybody
I have not seen Catch 22 yet as i live in australia and cannot download it yet but i love reading your comments just one thing i think Hurleys Comic the one that was written in spanish( i think) and ended up with walt was a Flash Gordon Comic Book not a Flash . However the flash would win that race easily.
superman sux. BATMAN RULES.
Boy, I'm getting all my details wrong today. Pay no attention to the woman posting with the hula girl doll.
black_rock
Yes you're right Hurley's comic book was a Fash Green Lantern comic.
That should be Flash not Fash.
I hear ya, memphish - I must have been REALLY tired last night. I'm getting it all wrong, too. :)
Case in point, I just had to correct this post because I called you maven. Yeesh!
I still think that parachute girl did not bail out of the helicopter at the time of the crash. I think she knew a little something about the island, and knew that the chopper would go down, so she bailed out early. Someone was talking yesterday about how a helicopter couldn't get too far out in the ocean without some kind of support, so hopefully there was someone out in the ocean, beyond whatever boundaries the island has to pick up the pilot.
In fact, that's my new theory. Penny sent the chopper out and Naomi parachuted out over the island. The island caused the chopper to crash, and Penny is on a boat just outside the invisible barrier, waiting to pick up the pilot. Kind of a guerrilla attack strategy.
If Desmond and the 3 stooges (hehe) heard the copter, do you think the Others heard it also?
I don't get the sci fi/time travel stuff, but do you think Desmond is time looping and living differently each time, so this time he was a monk, one time he was a set designer for the RSC, one time he was in medical school, one time he was in the army. I'm hard pressed to cram all of that into his timeline. For example, if he met Penny post-Abbey, and then it was 2 years until what we saw in FBYE, how did he know the Indian professor guy in London well enough to go barging into wherever that was and find him?
black_rock - No, it was Flash. Flash Gordon would have looked like an old 1950's sci-fi movie that MST3K would have parodied. sayid'sgirl was right, though. It was a Flash/Green Lantern crossover.
TBP
oops you're right. It wasn't Flash Gordon
I think the whole "Catch 22" thing is that if Des lets Charlie die (just like his vision), Penny would have been the parachutist; by saving Charlie (again), Naomi showed up instead.
Now, it's just figuring out who Naomi is and what her connection is to Des & Penny.
melissa_lossa - Blogger ate my post, but that line from X-Files comes from everyone's favorite episode (seriously, who doesn't say this one is their favorite?), "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose."
memphish
I don't think he's looping I think he sees flashes and knows he can choose to change things or not. He may have been doing this before he realized what it meant.
Hi All! Happy Lost hangover! :o)
Maven, I loved the spooky campfire story part! I couldn't believe that Jin was doing the spooky-flashlight-cutoff-hand-story!!!
Wow Amused, I wonder if TPTB will say the same thing to us about killing off the only Portuguese language person. :o) Sort of a "nyah-nyah" moment for them.
LMAO Memphish, Desmond Von Trapp! And yes, I too think that Dez is very paranoid about changing anything, since Mrs.Hawking stressed that point so formidably.
Right JGZ about "coincidences" from the X-Files. And remember what Mr. Eko said about them too.
Ace, thanks for the helo info. Is that a Russian helo? Damm, you'd have a lot of debris flying around when you ejected, if the rotors go first! Much more dangerous flak than when you eject from a jet, and that's bad enough!
In england, I think hat it was entirely wishful thinking on Dez's part, about it being "Penneh".
Dang, all your comments have made me see the obvious, which I'm sure that y'all have thought already....that Mrs.Ringlady instructed Brotha Campbell to interfere with Dez's first wedding (he probably clocked Dez in the head to make him pass out), then to cloister him so his girl (and her brother) couldn't find him, then when that marriage danger is over, they let him go to meet up with Penny who's Dad is, etc., and then they get him away from her and put him on the island. Hmm. Sheesh, couldn they just have recruited him like they did with Jules and saved themselves a lot of trouble?!
memphish said...
Melissa_lossa, thanks for the myth correction. I couldn't remember DJ Dan's mythic beastie name and didn't recognize Hurley's.
Just for the record, the "Mythic Beastie of the Month" pictured there is supposed to the Mapinguari.
TBP - thanks for the X-Files info! I do love that episode, although my personal favorite of the "funny" episodes is either Jose Chung's From Outer Space or Small Potatoes. Ah, I miss the X-Files.
Ah, thanks, engineer - I've never heard of that one. Funny that reading wiki article, it says that there was a fake script for Lost leaked in season 1, where Charlie is running from Smokey and it turns out to be this creature!
Ahh, Clyde Bruckman, one of the best! Tx, TBP.
Great hulagirl Memphish!
Melissa_Lossa said...
it says that there was a fake script for Lost leaked in season 1, where Charlie is running from Smokey and it turns out to be this creature!
Yes, the inclusion of the Mapinguari reference in The Lost Experience was a nod and a wink to the perpetrators of that hoax.
FYI: I saw that there is a Lost game you can get on your cellphone now. Has anybody tried it out to see if it is worthwhile?
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