Tonight, on a very special Lost, Richard Alpert has a difficult decision to make.
Finally, the Richard-centric episode we've always dreamed of! And with a cast of interesting guest stars to boot.
Plus, one of the coolest promo shots I've seen.
Here's one last hint: Ab Aeterno is Latin for "since the beginning of time."
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
Ab Aeterno - Season 6, Episode 8
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I'm so ready for this episode. I'll look at the translation later.
Oh Yeah! Bring it on baby!
It's got to be better than what I'm expecting. . .
I'm here! Wow, love that pic for this episode! I'm not very spoiled for tonight, can't wait!
LOL, Lost2010, what are you expecting?
An episode about people I'm not invested in. . .
Hi Black Swan and lost2010.
Ah, I see..
I've been a bit disappointed with seeing Richard running around scared this year.
Hi SG!
Hey all!
oh crap who is this chick oh i guess its her.
Purgatory baby. . .
Watching live with my peeps! Ooh yeah!
What!? Purgatory! Where's Chucklez lol
Dead is dead is dead?
oh maaaaan!!!
LOL - oh, Chucklez.
Where is Chucklez to argue with Richard that it isn't Hell... It's PURG-A-TORY!
(Is that how he always wrote it?)
So the big hint we missed in Season 1, was when Christian told Sawyer he was in hell. . .
And then later when Anthony Cooper gold Sawyer he was in hell. . .
And now Richard says they're in hell. . .
I'm starting to think maybe they're. . .
Hi :)
DeD is Ded is DED... lol
Maybe Cooper was right.
Enjoy everyone...still have 2 hours to wait here. See you after it all, or maybe tomorrow, if ya'll all go to sleep.
lol oh boy.
Ben is totally my favorite character. From control to conniver to astonished and just hanging on. He's funny!
I don't like Nestor in a beard so much.. it's funny, but I always thought Richard had a lost love somewhere
OH NO!! =(
email...
xxoo
WOW this is the begining of Richard!!!
I keep waiting for Jacob to show up.
anybody catch what page in the bible, which passage it was open to? I think Luke 4:37 maybe?
Interesting... so RA was born sometime in the 1830s?
It was a Verily Verily passage. . .that's all I caught
Nah- can't believe they mean actual Christian hell.
Luke 4:37 is about Jesus healing Simon's wife though. . .so that seems more likely.
Hey LoCo's!
Got home just in time! Hope I didn't miss anything in the enhanced comments.
El padre actualmente dice no? (I think I got the tense wrong on that.)
And it looks like did Jacob heal all of Ilana's wounds.
ok, get out your calculators.. how old is Richard?
Did anybody else get the feeling Ben was lying when he said Richard doesn't know anything?
Oh wait, that's Simon's wife's mother. . .not Simon's wife. . .oops. sorry
I still don't think it's hell. Richard is speaking like this existence is hell on earth, IMO.
Too sad!
So for the record, that priest is just plain wrong about grace needing to be earned...even the Bible doesn't say that.
I'm not sure what Ben knows or doesn't at this point. I think he's totally winging it.
i think Richard will think it's hell just like Anthony Cooper thought it was hell
I think he's going for the 'life without Isabella' is hell. . .
There is Mr. Dien's Hanso ref he wanted.
I was hoping Richard was a leftover Egyptian. That would have made him older and been less obvious than the Black Rock connection.
So what happened between 18whatever and present day to destroy that statue?
So it just plain old crashed? I was hoping the island popped up under it.
Capt. Magnus Hanso!
So, that's how the Black Rock ends up on the Island and the Statue gets broke!
Whatcha wanna bet they all get the sickness and Richard kills them all?
Black Rock breaking the statue. Beautiful.
Hurley must have been talking to Alpert's dead shipmates/fellow slaves.
The was one helluva Jacobian wave.
Ace direction on this ep.
Ooohh! That was definitely better.
BTW, looks like eye-liner, even though I know it's not supposed to be. Looked like he had on extra.
Richard was praying with his eyes closed when smokey was 'analyzing' him.. hmm
What makes you think the Blackrock broke the Statue???
Ben lies that's what he does ;)
Ugh! I'm ironing at the same time and missed the part where the black rock hit the statue! Didn't look like the ship would do that much damage though.
So that wasn't the Black Rock we saw in the S5 finale?
Ded, the ship hit the statue in the head.
So a wooden ship lands in the middleof the jungle intact after crashing into a stone statue. the statue is demolished by it. Yeah. I buy that. Sure.
I thought the ship was running into the statue too.
LOL- Richard (guyliner) closeup!
Amen. Twinkle. Amen.
So far this is rubbing me the wrong way.
Blackswan... just like Kate and Juliet did way back when... hmmmm
haha oh man. this is such a good episode already. I wonder when we meet Rousseau
I also guess this means that the statue and the fertility problem aren't tied together since Amy gave birth to Ethan after the statue was at a minimum damaged.
Don't know how it got to the middle of the jungle though.
Maybe it was the huge wave AND the boat that knocked down the statue? Makes sense to me.
That scene was awesome!
So the ship Jacob and MIB were watching on the beach wasn't the Black Rock.
I must have missed that somehow... rewatch... lol
I thought for sue the ship at the end of S5 was the Black Rock. I'm disappointed now that it wasn't.
Maybe the Island heals wooden ships, just like it does people. ;-)
It was the Black Rock - it was just in the other reality. . . ;)
Gross! lol
Was that boar eating a person? Eeewwww!!!!
Perhaps Jacob created the storm immediately after we saw the BR in the S5 finale? I still think they're the same ship...
Boar!
Isabella=Smokey!
Conniving manipulative Smokey? Would we be able to hear Smokey-sounds while seeing "Isabella"?
MIB! WTF? I thought it would be Jacob!
So, MIB is working pretty hard at making Richard think he's in hell.
Yup, MIB's trying to make Richard think this is hell, and help him escape
Hanso was purposefully trying to find the island. They could have gotten close in the day time and then a storm came up in the night time.
Wow. so MIB was trying to get Richard to kill Jacob by telling hime he's the devil. He knew how to manipulate him when he scanned him. Same type of trickery we've seen him use in the present.
wow.... thats crazy... i totally thought it would be jacob too.
MIB did seem a bit more well groomed in this last scene than he did on the beach with Jacob in the Incident.
I want to hear MIB say his name-think he might say Jacob?
2 things i noticed in recon
sawyer didn't have his letter anymore. Instead he held onto a picture of his family. This makes it seem more like theres no jacob in this sideways. Without the nudge and pen sawyer listens to his uncle and never finishes the letter. The talisman from the past has now changed from a vindictive letter to a reminder of his humanity(picture). Sawyer in the sideways becomes a cop because his physical link to the past has changed. Everyday he looks at his parents instead of revenge words on a page.
secondly i always thought it was weird that tom made kate wear that sundress to build the runway. What if that whole episode at hydra island was to influence sawyer in 2007 on hydra island. they knew kate would ditch the dress there and sawyer would find it. The dress is there to remind sawyer what side he is on in his coming role in the battle with widmore and flocke.
oh man i cant wait to see him switch sides.
AS in- maybe Richard has been fooled all this time?
So far I don't like this ep, but I can say that Alpert and Isabella remind me very much of Sun and Jin and their wedding vows... and this may be their weak spot that MIB exploits...
I can't quite figure out why Richard now thinks Jacob was lying the whole time. Just because MIB finally succeeded in getting Jacob killed?
Wait, no, was first Hanso trying to find the island? Anyway, someone escaped with the log book because second Hanso had it.
Holy cow this is good!
Or because he thinks MIB is Jacob?
Richard knows that Locke is the man who helped him on the ship. "Good to see you out of those chains." And Richard was scared of Locke.
Dogens knife and his same insturctions.
He keeps promising them all their lost loves. . .
The trick to staying alive on the island is not to be in love. . .
Another empty promise. He will never see his wife again (unless MIB takes her form again - but it's not really her).
I wonder if he's telling the truth about Jacob taking his body.
So MIB reads Richard's mind about his wife. Plays up the scene and pretends to rescue him. He's good.
Why isn't Jacob more present? Helping? Advising? Whatever?
I still don't buy the ship being in one piece and the statue being crashed.
Jacob is WAY more energetic in the 19th century!
6 extra minutes of commercials! This is ridiculous.
Well he's a very different Jacob.
So which is which? Did Jacob take MIBs humanity?
Im Loving this episode!
No- I guess our Jacob is going to be his Jacob.
Jacob kicking Richard butt and taking names! He didn't deny being the devil, did he?
If Jacob took MIB's body- what was he before he took it?
TOL
I was think about the same thing about Sun and Jin and their vows.
He did better than deny it. He proved MIB to be a liar by proving that to Richard that was not dead and in Hell. The implication is that everything MIB said was a lie, but then again, I do wonder about the taking of his body.
If touches are significant, then what's the significance of MIB's touch?
That I can do!
sniff...sniff
Hot DEamn.... long episode huh?
So in the other reality with the island on the bottom of the sea, does that mean the bottle became uncorked? If so, that's veeeeeery interesting....
Todos nos vamos al infierno!
Amazing episode. I really liked it.
Im totally rewatching that later one that was amazing.
That was awesome.
Two thumbs WAY, WAY up. Thank you, Melinda Hsu Taylor and Gregg Nations, and Nestor Carbonell. :)
So I guess the island is Sunny-freakin'-dale-hellmouth. Love the bottle analogy.
I need to watch that again!
I think I may have to break up with LOST. The Island is the lid of Pandora's box. The "bad guy" can make your life better, but the "good guy" doesn't want to interfere . Like the world off the Island isn't evil without MIB in it? Jacob leaving Richard to die of starvation and thirst on the ship after bringing him there makes me not want to root for him. Two philosophers playing games with people's lives. I think I'll just rewatch S1 and enjoy it again.
That was a satisfying episode. I don't even mind anymore if the Black Rock wasn't the ship at the end of S5. I'll even forigve the wooden ship smashing a stone statue.
For sure Black Swan re watch more than once.
The last episode I disliked this much was The Constant. . .
But I'll always have La Fleur. . .right?
Needs at least one rewatch tonight...if I have time!
Even better that Hurley was speaking to Isabella. I guess his super power doesn't really require any connection to the dead person (or maybe Richard or the cross were the connection)?
So the little boy in the jungle was...some moderator, or angel-like entity?
OK so 2 things that seemed to be true before- Jacob wants people to do things on their own or it doesn't count. MIB is kind of in jail.
I sure hope the sunk island doesn't mean the f/side is hell- it doesn't seem like it up to now.
lol lost2010
I'm glad you have La Fleur. The Constant was one of my faves.
Whats wrong with you? This episode was absolutely brilliant...great writing, amazing cinematography and great story.
I was thinking Hurley was talking to Isabella. But never got around to saying it. I was having a hard time keeping up with the comments tonight. :)
oh and btw, i dont think Isabella was Isabella
Concrete
Everyone has different reasons why they like Lost.
I'm glad that Hurley seems to be playing such an important part this season. Seems like he's been sidelined a bit at times.
The "bad guy" can't really make your life better. He just promises that he can to make you do his bidding. He promises the impossible. And if he can't use you, he just kills you. (e.g. Eko)
The "good guy" makes promises, too, but he's honest about what's possible for him to do and what's not possible. At least he was with Richard.
And the whole "not interfering" thing sounds a lot like "why bad things happen to good people." I can't explain why he didn't go to the ship to help Richard and the rest of the people on the ship. I wish that had been explained. What did he expect them to do after crashing with MIB around to destroy them?
You mean the Isabella Hurley was talking to or the one on the Black Rock?
Both, the black rock one is pretty clear
SG -- I thought Isabella right after i hit "publish" on that first post I made!
Richard asked Jacob to make him live forever (perhaps not completely understanding what he had asked for).
At least the bad guy doesn't let you die of thirst. Jacob was perfectly okay with letting everyone on that ship and for that matter everyone he ever brought to the Island die. Do your own damn dirty work Jacob if you really want to keep MIB on the Island do it and leave the rest of the world alone.
Yep- Jacob doesn't much seem to care that the people he brought to the island all are dead, or what happened to Richard. And why are the people always brought via disaster that is likely to kill so many and scatter the rest? How is that going to prove their "goodness" or not?
Ob
Agree Richard probably never expected to actually live forever or think what that would be like.
ML -- I love that Hurley gets to take a more active role this season too! And the Jorge can make us of his Spanish at the same time.
The whole thing with Jacob trying to prove MIB wrong reminds me of Job where God had a bet with the devil that Job would still praise him even if he lost everything. I never liked that book of the Bible. I always found it very unsettling.
Maybe Jacob wanted to see if there was any good in the ship's crew.
SG- that's true- the officer that killed all the slaves was like Claire- if I don't kill the Other, he will kill me.
Unfortunately, the crew didn't get a chance to prove anything about themselves since Smokey killed them all. The only one left standing was someone he though he could manipulate into killing Jacob for him.
So back to the present, now that Jacob's dead, what does MIB need to happen before he can leave the island? I guess he needs to kill all the candidates, but why hasn't he done it yet? Because he can't? He needs to get them to kill each other?
As awesome as that was, and it was, I feel like I need another Richard episode. Immediately. I'd like to see what happened between 1867 and 2007. I guess that's what fan fiction is for.
Yeaht JT, from what Jacob told Richard on the beach it seems that everyone who had been brought to the Island before the Black Rock had died or been killed by then.
I think "Mr. Whitfield" said there were 5 of them left -- was he including the slaves below deck? Whitfield killed 2 of the slaves below deck, interrupted by Smokey. Did Smokey kill everyone else that had been left alive on the Black Rock, because if that's the case Richard would have been alone until the next crash or arrival.
Smokey scanned Richard, and then left him alive -- likely because he "saw" Isabella and thought he could use that to play Richard.
I think he said there were 5 officers left- so not enough to control the slaves from his point of view.
@OB... he said there were 5 officers left.
Questions that will likely never be answered but that I want to know -- how did Radzinsky get the info re Magnus Hanso for the Blast Door Map? How did the first mate's journal get to London to be auctioned?
And one I hope that will be answered -- How did Widmore and Ellie end up on the Island?
Just rewatched the part where the Black Rock strikes the statue, and it looks like it was a glancing blow to the weak part of his snout. Hence minimal damage to BR. Guess the torque from the strike must have caused most of the statue to crumble. It was many centuries old even then, right?
The whole thing with Whitfield killing the slaves made no sense. They'd just crashed and hadn't looked for fresh water or food, yet that's why he claimed to kill them. It was like he had immediately gotten the sickness.
why shouldnt he kill them? They are just slaves for him. That way he doesnt need to feed them
I just realized something. MIB didn't need Isabella's body to impersonate her. In the past, it seemed as though he needed the body.
Thinking about that boar eating the dead people -- and then thinking about MIB saying that he "just ate" in that scene on the beach in season 5. Was MIB the boar? (EEEWWWWW!!!!!!)
Then leave them there to die -- like Jacob.
I wonder - didn't Richard prove Jacob's point? Or was he guilty of some act of corruption sometime between 1867 and the present?
So, if there were 4 other officers left, did Smokey kill them all?
Wow, neat ep! I had company so I couldn't read all your posts during the show but glad that I can now, great comments so far.
The ep kind of dragged in places I thought (too much time spent in the BR?) but overall I liked it.
Ditto, Twinkle, about what you said about what the priest said to RA in jail. That ain't so. :-p
What we know now about MIB kind of reminds me of how it says in Revelations that the devil will be let loose from his chains and roam the earth, or something like that. Have to go look that up. Perhaps that's kind of what TPTB are playing at here with him being trapped.
Sooo, Dez's snowglobe has a cork in it. :o)
Yeah, why didn't the Capt just let the prisoners die inside the BR? He didn't really have to kill them unless he just didn't want to hear them screaming until they died. I thought that was kind of gruesome and unnecessary to the story. They could have just made them die in the crash. Oh well.
Looking forward to everyone's thoughts in the days to come, even from those who didn't really like this ep.
Maybe Jacob's indifference to the lives of the people he brings is just something that TPTB are using (badly) to throw us off. By that I mean, he may not really be as coldhearted as his cryptic words are making him seem. I hope.
Capcom -- I was wondering the same about "Mr. Whitfield". But I guess it makes him seem more ruthless. He really wouldn't have had much regard for a prisoner/slave. It could've take anywhere from a few days to a couple weeks for the slaves to starve to death below deck (and you're right, maybe he didn't want to hear their screaming for that long). And then there's a much more morbid thought...Donner party-esque thought. They would have been carrying enough food for their journey at least, or did Whitfield say they lost all of their rations in the crash?
It wasn't Jacob's words Capcom -- it was his inaction. He brings a boat; it crashes on the Island with people chained in it and he leaves it there never visiting it so that the people can be skewered by their officers or merely die of thirst.
I seems like what's going on is that Jacob can leave the Island and interfere in anyone's life off the Island, but not on the Island whereas MIB can't leave the Island, but can mess with people on it.
I also want to know why Jacob brings people other than candidates to the Island if they are fair game for MIB whereas candidates don't seem to be. I also wonder if once Jacob has determined they are not a candidate, like Linus, can MIB then kill them where before he could not?
he said "we have no fresh water and limited supplies"
Did Jacob say to Ilana there were only six candidates left? Like he started with a set # (360?) and one of the Losties will be IT?
Maybe Jacob is bound by rules of some sort that he cannot directly intervene? Maybe this is part of why he give Richard his "job".
If everyone on the Island was dead when Richard/Black Rock were brought there, and Richard is made Advisor, when was there a leader? Unless there were others already on the Island or other survivors from the Black Rock, there would have to be another shipwreck/crash to bring yet more people to the Island when the first leader (at least for the post Black Rock era) to be appointed.
If Magnus Hanso was the ship's Captain, I'd assume he was on the Black Rock. Did he survive the crash, was he alive, could he have been claimed?
Yeah Concrete, but that was just plain stupid on Whitfield's part. He's on an Island full of fresh water and fruit and boar. It can probably be read as some sort of class structure commentary, but I don't care that much.
Good point JT. If we use the lighthouse as a limit we only get 360 candidates in the history of Jacob/MIB? Or can you write someone else's name over another's which would explain why Shephard was in such bold print?
Right Memphish, that did bother me that he wasn't shown to help them in the BR. But I thought that he sounded kind of cold on the beach talking to RA about all the people he brought who were dead too. Maybe Jacob will be shown to be somewhere else when the BR first got there. Off-island collecting recruits perhaps?
That's all I got. I'm ready for the original Survivor tomorrow night. At least Jeff Probst doesn't leave them to die of thirst. :-)
Whitfield even says why he does it....
I would have done the same
LOL Memphish. But he lets them get eaten by bugs. :-p
He didn't think there was any means of controlling them. They were "in the wild" as Sawyer would say. Of course - he could have tried forming a group that helped each other to survive. But,he had probably done so many nasty things to them that he knew there would be payback coming.
In this case ,it was Smokey!
Thanks Concrete.
Memphish, it did seem extremely premature on Whitfield's part to just assume there's no fresh water -- it didn't really seem like they would have had a lot of time to explore by the time he came below deck to begin his slaughter.
CON- remind me never to go sailing with you! :)
I agree, too weird to not even have scouted around a tropical island for some kind of sustenance first. Maybe he was just a girlyman and too lame to go foraging.
Just Thinking - Youre not my slave :D
I think he has said something like "because if i freed you it would be only a matter of time before you would try to kill me" that would have been my fear too
Maybe Jacob wasn't looking for a replacement yet in 1867. Maybe it was Richard's attempt to kill him that prompted him to look for a replacement. Or maybe whoever Jacob answers to (since there seems to be a set of rules they must abide by, there must be someone else in charge) instructed him to leave the island, find the candidates and touch them.
Good points Concrete. And I'd imagine that things like that actually happened back then that our modern 'civilized' mentality can't comprehend...at least I can't. People of lower classes were really considered not even human until recently, and even still are in some backwards places on this planet.
What does it mean that Hurley's Isabella is not dressed in 1867 clothes? Looks different than when she died?
oh! I'm 15 minutes in....poor Richard! I think I'm gonna cry.
and- I'm not liking all this "hell" talk...interesting Richard and Cooper/Locke's dad think/thought it was hell.
ok commercials almost over...
She still had very lacy sleeves.
Do we know for certain that Isabella said Richard had to stop the man in black? Or could that have been Jacob?
This episode is really making me think my theory is correct; to live in the real world you have to die in the Island world. So, if Jacob OR MIL kills someone or lets them die, they are actually doing them a favor. Looking at it this way, even MIB wants to do Jacob a favor by killing him. I think it's all about needing or not needing the Island. Remember back to when one of our Losties would be 'enlightened' or found their redemption, then boom, they'd end up dying and we'd even be cringing if someone started to let go of their demons, see things in a different perspective.
This is the only way I could reconcile my feelings that memphish is having right now.
That was a little confusing BTW when Hurley stopped translating Isabella-but I can see we were meant to realize that he was still doing it. It just was more effective to have us hear only Isabella's words directly to Richard.
Oh, really JT? I interpreted it as Richard finally being able to hear her.
AL- yeah me too
heres a couple thoughts
1. i think dogen said he didn't really know if the blade thing would work on flocke because he was given the info from jacob via richard, jacob didn't really know if it would work.
2. jacob didn't go down easy with richard. a far cry from the way jacob let ben kill him. backs up the notion that jacob knew ben was gonna kill him.
3. jacob must have touched hurley more than once because he could see dead people before the cab ride. Jacob needed to make sure hugo went on ajira more than anyone because his spanish phycic skills would be needed to win the heart of richard back.
4. Did jacob have to baptize richard in the ocean to wash off mib's touch before he imbued imortality on ricardo.
5 When jacob saw the black rock in the distance it was clear as day out, but today it showed it was night and violently storming, like when frank left the island before. Im convinced that right as sawyer and miles were looking at the statue and locke was turning the donkey wheel, was the moment the black rock was coming ashore and it made the black rock break the statue. Miles said the last time jump was different and felt like an earthquake. this also could relate to why the time jumps spanned from 1860-12007
6 the cave was smokeys
7 smokey gets to pick all the pawns in the game and divvy them up with jacob.
8.i'm thinking mib was just smokeys flavor of the moment like locke
9. richard may be able to kill flocke
10. jacob wants sayid to be flockes horseman because he want him to betray him.
11. jacob manipulated the losties lives to make some people seem more evil but have hearts of gold so they would betray smokey, like sawyer or kate.
12. cooper probably had a visit from smokey
13. locke has won the rounds of the game always, but the only way to end the game is kill all the candidates while jacob is dead.
14 the whole thing reminds me of jury selection and trying to trick the other side into picking jurors that you like
I believe like AL, too. Richard finally learned that it was in himself all along that his wife is only dead to him if he lets her be. So, according to my own theory, Richard won't be needing the Island anymore, so... the only trouble with this is that he wouldn't fit into the real world anymore because he'd be too old to even be alive in it. So I guess he'll really be joining Isabella soon.
It would be new thing to see Jacob shapeshifting-ah- too tired for more. Have to sleep my way to some new ideas. Good thinking to you all!
Interesting 2costa. LOL #14! X-D
One more- yes-Amy Lynn- except at the end Richard asks if she is gone and Hurley translates the one last thing. Why didn't Richard just hear it?
@JT, I thought that Isabelle had said it to him in whatever conversation we saw at the top of the hour.
maybe it wasnt isabella who has said it. Jacob manipulates just like Smokey.
As i said, im not even sure it was Isabella
Here's my other question... if the Black Rock crashed on Craphole Island in 1867, what the 1845 date we're given in the Constant about?
Lostpedia says this:
The date may have given as 1867 to address another continuity error. The Black Rock had crates of dynamite. Alfred Nobel didn't patent dynamite until 1867.
2costa - I was thinking along the lines of your #4 as well.
BS - I also had a feeling in that scene that Richard was being given the ability to die if he chooses. But then again, Isabella could have just meant that she was with him in his heart and in his memories a la the LHotP episode James was watching in the FS.
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