This is turning into a really great week for television. First, Amanda Overmyer gets voted off American Idol and then tonight we've got a highly anticipated installment of LOST being teased with a clip of Sayid saying to Michael, "Start from the beginning and explain how you came to be on this boat." Hopefully the happenings of this episode will give us plenty to talk about until the show's April 24th return.
Thursday, March 20, 2008
Meet Kevin Johnson - Season 4, Episode 8
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Haven't done that in awhile.
I just hope this won't turn out like the last time we thought Sayid was going to get some answers, namely with Juliet, don't ask me no questions, I'll bat my eyes at you, Burke.
Markin' a spot, ya'll!
xxoo
Email test...
I know what you mean memphish. Not to mention. Leave her alone she's under my protection Jack. At least Michael doesn't have anyone to stand up for him. Or would want to.
Hi Everyone! The LIVE podcast was fun!
I'm looking forward to tonight's episode!!!
Yeah the pre-show was very fun, even though I lost my connection for about ten minutes. But I enjoyed it.
Dennis said...
It's 8:00 PM EDT, which is GMT -05:00
It was GMT -4 in the end, midnight UK time.
I enjoyed being part of a first tonight. I hope I didn't sound too daft !
David had a few gremlins creep in so was a little distracted, but managed to keep us on the right track I think.
It must be catching as I had network problems all day at work, and I only got on to the internet because of a free public WiFi hotspot outside the building where I work.
Right I'm off before the real discussions start, I'll check in on Sunday.
If there is a time for the bookclub podcast do you think it would be possib;e to send an email notification out like David did with the Pre-Show one today ?
the l key has turned into an ; key :-)
Aight (lol) See ya Zort. Enjoyed bein on the 'cast with you. Hope you join in next time.
Btw, I never really realized how southern my accent until now...
Can't wait... to minutes!! ttyl
lol two minutes..
Waaaalt!!!
Here's The Show:
The following is a test of a weekly Lost Pre-Show that will air live on talkshoe at 9:00pm when Lost returns to the airwaves. Let me know what you think by sending an e-mail to tlcpodcast@gmail.com or call 206-202-3512.
P.S. This is in it's raw unedited form! The actual show will be and sound much better.
LIVE PRE-SHOW PILOT
Glad to see Miles again. I was beginning to wonder what happened to him! *Smiley*
Alex and Karl have been off getting their hair done and Danielle has been washing her face. Questions answered!
I have a tally of 1 Waaaallllttt and 2 my sons. Normal pronouncements of Walt's name don't count.
Aw man, I missed the podcast. Sounds like you guys had fun!
If I saw that right, that had the temple to the left of the mountains... and to the right of the mountain I though I saw the Bar of Barracks... if this so there is no way it took them that long to walk there... just thought I would point that out...
Can someone with HD confirm or deny that?
WOW!!!! Mike is big pimpin in that mint green car... lol
That was a Mama Cass song on his radio. He said "I'm sorry" like Jack did before he didn't jump.
Rousseau brings her rifle over for coffee. That's a Junior League no-no.
And nothing pins us a time for that flash.
So it looks like the Temple is a station, after all.
And dang - that's a rather extreme way to kill yourself!
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllltttttt!!!!!!
Nice car:)
Ok, there settin it up for us to think that Michael is the one in the Funeral home. It could be a FB, tho...
It would make sense. No family. No one else from the o6 would want to go to his Funeral.... An African-American neighborhood.
Ok, maybe not. I sure am wrong a lot today....
Tom!?!
Ok... Libby and Mr. Friendly?? (Seriously I can't recall his name)
Whoa.... Zeke!
So Michael and Walt were missing for 2 months and now it's after Thanksgiving in NYC judging by Mike's mom and her decorations. I like the Walt in the window. Hard to tell if he's taller.
What name did Libby use in the hallucination? I was too busy identifying her voice to catch it.
Tom, Mr. Friendly, Zeke... all the same guy
How is he there?
She called him Mr. Dawson
I didn't catch it either
So, this is after Michael and Walt get away from the island, but before Michael ends up on the freighter?
Libby called him by his real name, Mr. Dawson.
Thanks Ded. I like your avatar.
Michael said he's on the boat to die.... so he can be like the other dead ones who pop up everywhere?
This would of course be taking place before he's killed on the island, right?
This is after Mike and Walt left, but before the finale of last year.
Are you sure she didn't say Johnson?
FRIENDLY indeeeeeeeed!!!!!
Mr. Friendly really is friendly...
So does the island grant eternal life? A fountain of youth perhaps?
So Michael has work to do, just like Locke does....
OK, I got the timing now
Zeke's got a boyfriend!
Arturo was a hoot!
The universe is course correcting to keep Michael to do some work. Is that why Jack couldn't jump too?
Kurt Vonnegut was an answer on the quiz show on the TV.
So does Sayid become Ben's hitman when Michael fails to kill everyone on the Kahana?
And most importantly is Bai Ling's body one of the 324? Please, yes.
Poor hubby's more confused than I am...
So Ben didn't arrange the Freckage after all. It was always Widmore... Because I believe Tom over Gault... since while he always did what he was told... but was always an honest straight forward guy... Maybe it's cause he's a Bear w/ his cub... lol
Tom told Michael he has work to do, just like Walt told Locke.
And LOL Memphish!
Don't trust the captain....
who to believe?
Well we have our 2 conspiracy theories now. At least we don't have a rift in time/space to contend with. Odds are both are lying.
im not watching .. i tuned in too late and i dont wanna be partially informed !
but when does it officially air on ABC.com ??!!!??! or itunes ??
Widmore's sendin in commandos to make like Metallica and kill 'em all.
So if the freighter folks know all about 815, how come nobody recognizes Michael? It almost seemed as if Frank did recognize him, and was just messing with his head.
I don't think anyone really studied the 815ers like Ben did. I think they have names, but not extensive photos and files. The manifest which Frank referred to only has names.
I think each person on the boat was only told what they "need to know" as Naomi said. She, Miles, Keamy's crew all seem to know they're there to kill everyone. Frank clearly doesn't know that and neither did Kevin Johnson.
EF, I think the episode goes live at ABC.com at 2 am Pacific which is 5 am Eastern, but don't hold me to it.
So the wierd, mostly dead, people appearances aren't constricted to the island at all...
this hour is going soooo fast!
Should've counted to five...
Holy crap - did we just lose Rousseau and Karl?!
What's Sayid's problem?!? Argh....
Manm, this episode made me somewhat upset.
Due to a promo I JUST saw. Aaron is a definite member of the o6.
What the . . .? Who is shooting? Oh, I guess it's Keamy on his errand with Frank right?
So, unless Michael knows a lot more than he let on tonight, it seems unlikely that he slipped Desmond and Sayid the "don't trust the captain" note.
Memphish: I like that, it probably is Keamy.
EF, I agree with Memphish... it should be up between 5 and 5:15 am Eastern time.
Anyone else think the captain is going to say something like, "I know exactly who Michael is," when they continue the scene?
ange - that wouldn't surprise me. Frank's whole "have you ever heard of flight 815?" speech just seemed a little bit suspicious to me.
All right, kids. I can't hang around here too long tonight. Good night!
So did Ben tell Sayid to rat out Michael? The levels of deception here are boggling the mind.
Yeah, I thought that the Capn was going to say, "I know", about Mike's ID.
I think that Ben killed Karl and Rousseau. Sent them out on a hike to the so-called sanctuary, and had 'em killed.
Memphish, are you in the junior League? If so, I would like to ask you some Qs aobut it later, after we run out of LOST talk. Tx. :-)
That Bugs Bunny flag popping up on the bomb was TOO FUNNY! Shoulda said, "Sucker".
Wow! I can't believe Rousseau is dead (by that I mean I don't believe she's dead). So Aaron really is a member of the O6, huh? I guess I can live with that. I can see why they wouldn't want to confirm that before last week's ep, though (woulda ruined the Jin reveal at the end).
Anyone still not think Michael's in the coffin? Seems to fit way too well, now, especially after seeing him try to off himself repeatedly. I guess he ends up doing whatever the island wants him to do, and his suicide attempt is finally successful.
I wonder whether he'll change his fake name after coming back from the freighter (to match J. Lantham, or whatever), or if TPTB are just going to pretend the name in the article never happened (would make sense, since the only way to have seen it was through our freaky internet screen grab obsession).
But, man.... Did I say "wow" yet? Sayid's in for quite a change, considering he's willing to sacrifice Michael because he's working for Ben, but he's going to end up doing exactly the same thing for exactly the same reasons.
Shout out to Mr. Friendly (now his nickname makes even more sense), and to "Same Height Ghost Libby."
If the island doesn't heal Danielle, I'm going to be sad.
Anyone else got "Michael Row the Boat Ashore" stuck in their heads?
capcom said....
I think that Ben killed Karl and Rousseau. Sent them out on a hike to the so-called sanctuary, and had 'em killed.
I do too, but...... HOW is he communicating to "whoever" to get things done?
Also, Ben says only certain people are allowed in the Temple... so do you think for some reason Karl and (for more obvious reasons) Danielle aren't on THE LIST? If so, maybe there are standing orders to kill anyone other than those on the list if they appoach the Temple..
Well, I've got a wonderful thing called prom tomorrow, so i'll sign off.
Great epi.
Great pre-show.
Great fans!
Not sure I buy the idea that Ben had Karl and Rousseau killed. I can see why he'd want that to happen, but the bullets seemed to fly so close to Alex, I'm not sure he'd risk her getting hit like that.
Other others, anyone? Or maybe Alpert has taken over from Ben, and is running the Temple show?
have fun tomorrow, crossfade!
Danielle can't be dead. Didn't TPTB promise some backstory on Danielle? There's too much not yet told about her for her to die.
It does look like Ben arranged it so that Karl and Danielle would be shot. After all, Alex is "his". The way Ben was looking at Karl when he had his arm around Alex in the house looked like he wanted to kill Karl right then and there.
And yeah, count me in with those who say that the captain already knows who Michael is. He didn't look shocked. He looked almost amused.
I dunno Codysmom, but somehow! The same way that he communicated with Dr.Mole two weeks ago? Carrier pigeons? Carrier pidgeons with silencer guns? Wow.
I actually thought that Karl heard Smokey there for a sec, until the hole in the water bottle happened. That sure came out of left field.
erich, I have an old theory about the others being split into the Bens and the Alperts.... it would be interesting if it panned out...
Yeah, capcom,,, I thought I heard (and saw) a bit of smokey, too. Maybe Ben tells smokey what to do thru telepathy..
Who ever did it is a sniper, that's fer shurr. Probably also wearing a ghillie suit too. :o)
lostit said....
It does look like Ben arranged it so that Karl and Danielle would be shot. After all, Alex is "his". The way Ben was looking at Karl when he had his arm around Alex in the house looked like he wanted to kill Karl right then and there.
I totally agree! And the way Alex says "I'm Ben's daughter" confirms this.... it's just what Ben wanted
Poor Rousseau.... after surviving all these years.. and I really liked Karl, too.
Did anyone catch the quick flash of a frame with a picture of a thumbprint that said "theMOLE" on it near the beginning of the episode? I don't know if it was LOST-related or not, but it didn't say anything else on it and it only flashed for an instant with no corresponding audio.
The Mole was a "reality show a few years back hosted by Anderson Cooper. Looks like the are going to bring it back. But I doubt Cooper will be hosting it again.
Am I crazy or did Michael hear the whispers on the boat before Libby showed up? How does Ben know that the freighter crew has orders to recover him (Ben) and then kill everyone else? A can see a deck hand getting a list of names, but finding out those kind of orders? Seems a bit above his pay grade... And Danielle better not be dead, or I'll be seriously pissed.
It just seemed so odd that it only flashed on screen for a second just before a LOST episode about Ben's mole on the boat.
I heard the whispers too!
lostit
I agree it's odd. Maybe they thought it would be a good tie in. Unless they changed it alot or think people just forgot about it I can't believed they're bringing it back. I think it only lasted 2 or 3 episodes before.
Ben knows everything..... and he gets what he wants... I want that magic box:)
I meant 2 or 3 seasons not episodes.
I don'r remember if I heard whispers or not. I'm rewatching now and the closed captioning says there are whispers right be for we see her in the hospital. But I don't hear them.
So Walt isn't making people crazy on the boat - drat!
Can we return Michael and get Walt as an even exchange please? For my money, I'd want Walt as my saboteur. . .
And while they're at it, I'd like a larger helping of Sawyer in my next episode. But go light on the Kate - please.
Great line by Alex.... (to Ben): "These people, you said they're dangerous... More dangerous than you?"
lost 2010 said..
And while they're at it, I'd like a larger helping of Sawyer in my next episode. But go light on the Kate - please.
LOL, you need the magic box.... and I like your thinking:)
I was surprised too to learn that Walt is in NYC... I thought for sure he was still on the island (or on the boat)
Yes, I was happy to see that Walty is safe at home with Granny. :-)
So, Alex has made a choice. She has decided she doesn't believe Ben. And Sayid has made a choice - he doesn't trust Ben.
Since we know Sayid ends up switching sides, I'm a bit concerned for Alex.
It could be that someone against Ben has killed her protectors and is about to capture her and use her as leverage.
Would Ben leave the island behind to protect his daughter? As he said, "What wouldn't a man do for his son?" That's not really a gender specific sentiment when you think about it.
lost 2010 said...
It could be that someone against Ben has killed her protectors and is about to capture her and use her as leverage.
interesting......
I think y'all have about convinced me that Ben did order the hit on Karl and Danielle. Dang! I just can't make up my mind about who is the bad guy, who is the good guy. Is there even a good guy?
The Mole (which I liked) was only one season with Anderson Cooper at the helm...
They then made two celebrity Mole shows
The first one was ruined by giving clues in the show as to who won, and I figured it out in the second episode... they thought it would be hard. Those one's really sucked, but that was because they changed the way it was played as well.
If they bring it back the way it was in the first season... it might be worth watching... (for me anyway...lol)
Based on what Ben said to Sayid, I think outing Ben is going to get someone killed that Sayid will feel guilty about. Based on what we know about Sayid, I'm going to guess it'll be a woman. Alex or Claire? Alex or Claire? Decisions, desisions, decisions. . .
I think Alex said she was Ben's daughter hoping that the freighter folks would use her as a bargaining chip instead of killing her. Why would she need to ID herself to anyone from the Temple. So even if it turns out to be Dr. Mole who did the shooting, I think Alex believes it's Freighter Folk.
Maybe it was just Danielle Lost2010. Sayid has a special connection with her.
I meant outing Michael. Sorry.
I think Alex believed Ben when he said his enemies were more dangerous than he, himself. Ben must have thought/rationalized that it was necessary for Alex and Danielle to get killed to protect Alex.
Hey! That's right. Of course, we didn't really see any connection between outing Michael and Danielle getting killed. But Ben (even if he is a good guy) would still lie and manipulate people for his cause I bet.
Would Ben sacrifice Karl and Danielle and make it look like his daughter was killed (while hiding her away with his cronies) to get the losties on his side in the coming war?
I mean, Sawyer seems a bit protective of poor Karl - if he thinks these other guys did him in, he might back Ben in a fight. And he seems the least likely at the moment to side with Ben.
Anyone still doubt that it's Michael in the coffin after this episode?
lost 2010, I like your thinking on that... sounds like a Ben plan.. (you're scaring me... lol)
Erich, I would doubt it more now, cuz TPTB have shown us why it could really be him, and then they will fool us. :o) JK.
Good point Capcom, but given how few episodes are left this season, it's looking less and less like coffin guy is someone else -- unless there's someone else you can think of with a teenage son and a tendency to commit suicide.
I really liked the pacing of this episode. I didn't realize until almost the end of Michael's flashback that most of the episode had been a Michael flashback, and I didn't remember until we saw Alex, Karl and Danielle with 3 minutes left that someone was supposed to die. At that point I was just so glad it wasn't Claire or Jin that I was willing to sacrifice anyone but Danielle, dang it.
I'm rewatching the episode and I just noticed the familiar eye-opening shot when Michael wakes up in the hospital.
I was a little disappointed that there wasn't as much craziness on the boat this time... I'm starting to think more and more that Regina jumped because she found out about Naomi (and she's the RG on Namoi's bracelet).
ded
I was one of the few who liked The Mole too. I thought they had 2regulars and two celebrity seasons.
I think Ben killed Danielle and Karl. Danielle is not one of them and can't go to the temple nad Ben just is afraid Karl will get Alex pregnant. I couldn't believe the killed Danielle either.
I totally believe Ben is responsible for Danielle and Karl. He takes all the abuse knowing he's going to get them back... he always has a plan, you know:)
The woman who played Libby (at least I think it was supposed to be Libby) with the blankets in Michael's hospital room didn't look at all like Libby to me. Am I right about who it was supposed to be? The Libby that appeared to him in the engine room looked like Libby.
I can't believe they offed Rousseau! Not before they flesh out her backstory!
Not to mention the loss of mega death points in the Lost Fantasy League.
so who planted the freckage? ben or Widmore? hmm...they are both liars...
I like the idea that Libby is haunting Michael. Maybe she's the one who told Miles that Kevin's name was false.
I'm wondering if Rousseau is one of those people that the island won't allow to die. I don't think she's dead and she managed to survive an awfully long time on the island on her own. She managed to escape the smoke monster and Ben's cronies for 16 years. It wouldl make sense that the island has been protecting her. I think she's still alive. Speaking of still alive - I wonder if it was patchy (another one that the isalnd won't allow to die) that shot her?
If Ben was behind the Karl/Danielle shooting, it would be pretty anticlimactic. Here's a theory:
Alpert is actually Charles Widmore's man on the island, and is carrying out his instructions -- not Ben's -- including capturing Alex.
Yeah, I know he was on the island before Ben was, but who's to say the original "hostiles" weren't funded by Widmore? Maybe he didn't like the way Hanso was using the island for the "good of mankind" and wanted it for himself. We know Ben and Widmore have some sort of past together. Maybe Ben worked for Widmore at some point, but went his own way after the island/Jacob reached out to him. Maybe Alpert is a carry-over from those early days, and has convinced Ben he's on his side, just waiting for the day his real boss (Widmore) calls on him to take action once again.
Now that's a wacky theory!
Was Mr. Friendly's boyfriend the guy that Charles Widmore was beating up in the video?
ABC is bringing the mole back. I just saw this article on EW. I guess they thought LOST (and our fanatical screen caps and freeze-frame-itis) would be a good way to advertise it.
Actually, I'm for Mike being in the coffin, it would be poignant. But I never trust TPTB! :-)
Interesting theories Erich! A bit of payback for Ben, after he veers off the true purpose of the island, and Richard is given the task in getting control back from Ben. Hmmm.
How did Ben find out about the boat and know that it was going to be in Fiji in the first place?
Something's been nagging me about Michael's story. There's a big hole in it. What exactly happened when he took the bearing of 325? What exactly was the rescue that he found? Did he keep motoring in that direction until he hit a port? Did he run into another boat somewhere?
Yeah, Lostit, they left out that one little part. :-( I guess that the tugboat magically made it back to Australia, or across to LA? Color me perplexed.
Does anyone think that TPTB were setting us up to assume that it was the Frenzied Freighties that sniped Karl and Danielle, after seeing them blasting the clay disks off the deck? I mean, taking pot-shots at dishes is one thing, and "one-shot-one-kill" (even if you're killing a water bottle, heehee) is something else altogether. But still, in TV Land, is that what we are supposed to be thinking?
Just poppin' in to say it starts in 3 min for me! The comment numbers sound promising!
Enjoy, maven! The hour went so fast for me...
capcom, having Michael see those guys shooting skeet just made me think that it backed up Ben's story of the frieghter people being the bad guys in Michael's mind.
Me too. I find it hard to believe that anyone else could have made it to the island. And if Charlotte was a sniper, she would have taken them all out by now. :o)
I wonder what Frank's little errand was last week. I like him even more this week, if he is actually the blabbermouth that he is being set up to be, haha.
Using a machine gun for skeet shooting is a bit extreme. I think if it was just a normal rifle, it wouldn't have swayed Michael so much but those machine guns....
I found it odd that Michael said to Tom why the hell would I go back to work for you people? Unless he considers killing Ana and Libby and freeing Ben as working for them.
Ben says the difference between him and Widmore is that Widmore kills with out concience or greater purpose.
When he's at war he'll do what he needs to do to win. But he won't kill innocent people. So what to Ben is an innocent person?
So, am I the only one who doesn't think it was Keemy?
It's awfully convenient that Ben sent his daughter with the two people he sees as a threat for her affections, and miraculously she survives where they don't.
So yeah, didn't her mother survive like a paranoid survivalist (in fact, exactly like a paranoid survivalist) for 16 years without ever having a problem with the Others? Who would some off-island wanna-bes succeed where the Others failed for so long? Nope. It was a planned out trap.
Good so far! Finally understanding time line here...
Tom and Arturo! LOL
Memphish: Love your line that one of the bodies must be Bai Ling! LOL Better be good screen caps soon of those documents.
Half done for me!
steve, I agree with you... a planned trap... Ben always has a plan. I think he's "killing two birds with one stone" with this one... heh heh He gets Alex back to depending on him (and calling him Dad I bet) and he gets Locke's group to believe in the badness of the boat people so they join him in his "war"
on rewatching...
Miles says 80% of the people on the boat are lying about something (when Michael first goes on board)
Frank says he signed up to be on the boat because Widmore (the owner of the boat) believes Frank when he tells him the plane found in the bottom of the trench is faked.. I think Widmore just wants to get rid of Frank because he knows it's a freakage....
Well, we sure learned a lot tonight! OMG, did they really kill Danielle AND Karl?
Getting caught up...
The key Michael uses to open the box with the bomb in it reminded me of find815.com (the key on Sam's desk). The number he inputs for the bomb i think is 71776.. then he hears whispers and a "vision" of Libby appears and she says, "Don't do it Michael".
Maven, I don't believe anyone ever really dies on Lost.... lol
Codysmom said...
then he hears whispers and a "vision" of Libby appears and she says, "Don't do it Michael".
I don't think they were whispers so much as lyrics. I am fairly sure it was the Mama Cass song that was playing in the car.
The whispers didn't seem very distinct in this episode. The closed captioning says there are whispers before each time Libby appears. But I'm with you. I didn't hear them at all in the hospital and on the ship all I heard was the song then a stange noise but it didn't sound like whispers to me.
Steve, I'm talking about when Michael is on the boat and about to use the bomb... there are definitely whispers right before Libby makes her appearance.
I think they are very easy to hear.
Rewatching again:
So the time line is Michael in NYC after he and Walt left on bearing 325 (guess they did find rescue...probably a boat set up by Ben) and the time he got on the freighter. Pre-Christmas season in 2004.
The Mama Cass song was all about getting better, getting stronger every day, born to wander. How did that radio keep playing after that head-on collision?
We get the eye shot in the hospital. Michael can't believe he's still alive. Libby carrying blankets like in the hatch!
So Walt is safe and sound with Grandma in NY? Not on freighter or island. Why does Michael have to use a different name and his Mom can't use his real name and still doesn't know what happened to him for 2 months? Keeping a deal he made? Or afraid of murder charges?
something just struck me...We've speculated that perhaps Juliet asked Mike to kill AnaLucia as revenge for Goodwin's death. Ben says no one asked Mike to kill Ana and Libby. Mike didn't correct him with "well, your girl Juliet asked me to kill Ana, what about that?".
I believe Libby was an accident, but Mike could have held the gun on Ana and pushed her into the prison in exchange for Ben like he pushed Jack in with Locke. He didn't have to kill her.
Was it Mike's 'plan' to kill whoever was guarding Ben, let him go and make it look like Ben wounded Mike and killed so-and-so? Or did Juliet actually ask Mike to kill Ana as payback for Goodwin?
maven said...
The Mama Cass song was all about getting better, getting stronger every day, born to wander. How did that radio keep playing after that head-on collision?
Yeah, the same song starts playing right before Michael is going to push "execute" on the boat. Then I hear a girl's voice whispering "Michael" (I think) and then Libby appears. Looking at in in slow-mo it is strange it doesn't look like Libby is looking directly at Michael..
Hearing that Mama Cass song about getting better all the time was creepy as Michael's car goes faster and faster and crashes...
Amused, interesting... It sounds like Ben didn't tell Michael to kill anybody.. was it his idea or did Juliet tell him to do it.. hmmm... maybe why Juliet tells Jack "you don't want to see my file". If Ben knows Juliet did that, he has something on her (and another reason she can't leave the island) as an acomplice in murder?
So Tom can on and off the island, too! It was a long range plan...they're keeping tabs on Michael to use him later. Tom: "You can't kill yourself...the island won't let you!" "You've got more work to do" is like what Walt said to Locke.
There's a penthouse in the Hotel Earl? LOL Tom and Arturo...I guess he does throw like a girl, and Kate really isn't his style.
So if they believe Widmore found the coordinates, this is after the purpling and Penny got them. Widmore stole them from her. So Tom must have left the island shortly after that to set Michael up.
At least we get to see our favorite Freighters again: Minkowski, Naomi, Miles, etc. I thought Kevin would have said he knew someone from Manchester, when he asked Naomi about her accent.
If you listen to the way mike phrased it to ben on the radio from the freighter. I think Ben had a seperate deal with mike, where mike was going to kill ana lucia, probably because ben showed him how she killed a guy in L.a. and shannon, but libby was innocent. Thats why libby is the only one that haunts him or so it seems. I think since they showed in the promo that aaron is the 6th oceanic six, that Ben will find a way to save mike because "he's one the good guys now". Mike will have to stay on the island. They framed it now, like who staged the freckage, ben or widmore. I think Ben orchestrated it all to bring the others and the 815'ers together, but ben is a tyrant so Jack and Hurley need to go back. Sayid's about face from turning mike in for working with ben
, to beicomeing ben's assasin will be fun. I think libby might well be working with hawkings and the monk. It was intertiing how they had the reverse redemtion flash back with tom, thats down low lifestyle off the island and knowledge of Ben secret plan, since when mikhail came and told ben the frieghter was coming he seemed surprised, yet had mike on it already...hmmm.
I think a major question that poped up tonight for me was, what triggered the freighter mission for widmore, the south pole pupling coordinates from the guys that seemed to work for penny?Or locke pressing 77 on the computer, it would make just as much sense because widmore works with hanso and is on the board of directors.
Another big question I thought of, if We know where the freighter is docked within sixty miles of the island, and jack was saved, why doesnt jack know how to get back to the island????
Maybe sayid and desmond are the only one privy to the coordinates and howver the other five get off the island, they might be proverbially blind folded when leaving the island. Sayid is in a differnt class where hes bens personel assasin, so he probably wouldnt tell jack where the island really was.
It also seems increasingly likely that penny and daddy are working together, and Chuck is just spinning it as a rescue desmond freighter mission, hence the photo namoi had of desmond and penny...
I know this is off the wall, but what if ben specifically wanted the fan four for his army, and even abbadon is working with ben...
or ben and widomore have been working together for a while since hes had the black rock ledger for 8 yrs? and the whole faked plane, their boss is gonna kill you all, no theire boss is gonna. Is all a big con to get the fan four and whover is on the jacob list to join the others, and spin it as they cant get off the isand, hence Ben got rid of tom and ethan for wanting to still do off island missions, not that there's anythng wrong with that...
If you listen to the way mike phrased it to ben on the radio from the freighter. I think Ben had a seperate deal with mike, where mike was going to kill ana lucia, probably because ben showed him how she killed a guy in L.a. and shannon, but libby was innocent. Thats why libby is the only one that haunts him or so it seems. I think since they showed in the promo that aaron is the 6th oceanic six, that Ben will find a way to save mike because "he's one the good guys now". Mike will have to stay on the island. They framed it now, like who staged the freckage, ben or widmore. I think Ben orchestrated it all to bring the others and the 815'ers together, but ben is a tyrant so Jack and Hurley need to go back. Sayid's about face from turning mike in for working with ben
, to beicomeing ben's assasin will be fun. I think libby might well be working with hawkings and the monk. It was intertiing how they had the reverse redemtion flash back with tom, thats down low lifestyle off the island and knowledge of Ben secret plan, since when mikhail came and told ben the frieghter was coming he seemed surprised, yet had mike on it already...hmmm.
I think a major question that poped up tonight for me was, what triggered the freighter mission for widmore, the south pole pupling coordinates from the guys that seemed to work for penny?Or locke pressing 77 on the computer, it would make just as much sense because widmore works with hanso and is on the board of directors.
Another big question I thought of, if We know where the freighter is docked within sixty miles of the island, and jack was saved, why doesnt jack know how to get back to the island????
Maybe sayid and desmond are the only one privy to the coordinates and howver the other five get off the island, they might be proverbially blind folded when leaving the island. Sayid is in a differnt class where hes bens personel assasin, so he probably wouldnt tell jack where the island really was.
It also seems increasingly likely that penny and daddy are working together, and Chuck is just spinning it as a rescue desmond freighter mission, hence the photo namoi had of desmond and penny...
I know this is off the wall, but what if ben specifically wanted the fan four for his army, and even abbadon is working with ben...
or ben and widomore have been working together for a while since hes had the black rock ledger for 8 yrs? and the whole faked plane, their boss is gonna kill you all, no theire boss is gonna. Is all a big con to get the fan four and whover is on the jacob list to join the others, and spin it as they cant get off the isand, hence Ben got rid of tom and ethan for wanting to still do off island missions, not that there's anythng wrong with that...
Amused and Codysmom: Yeah, I don't think the real plan was to kill Ana Lucia and Libby. Libby was an accident after Michael freaked out an shot Ana Lucia. He didn't know what ever else to do at that point.
maven, I would really like to know how Tom, Ben, Alpert, etc are getting to and from the island and the mainland... where is Ben's private jet? lol
So, it's Charlie who was from Manchester, right?
Did that tattoo on Naomi's right arm look like a "mark" to you?
So Keamy is a Commando-type. You don't shoot skeet with fully automatic assault weapons. That convinces Michael to do what Ben wants him to do. Ben must be telling the truth that they're there to kill everyone.
And I did hear whispers before Libby appeared. And I faintly hear Mama Cass, too! When he pushes the Execute button, the countdown seems very short...usually there's at least a minute! The pop-up flag was very cartoonish! LOL
Yes, Codysmom: I was thinking of Charlie being from Manchester.
I wonder who the innocent people are on the boat according to Ben.
Ben does tell Michael that no one asked him to kill Ana Lucia and Libby.
Ben still making Lists...
When Sayid brings Michael to the Capt. and exposes him, I also got the feeling that the next things was the Captain saying "Yeah, I know! I'm working for Ben, too."
I think I like the idea that Ben set up Karl and Danielle to get ambushed. He also set it up in Alex's mind that she would be important as a hostage as Ben's daughter. Can Danielle really be dead?
But it also can be Keamy and his Commandos shooting. That was his mission. It could be where Frank went with the helicopter...to deliver Keamy and some of his Commandos.
It seems that the freighter had a larger crew than I originally thought. There were a lot of them hanging around when the Captain beat up a crew member for trying to go overboard with the rubber boat. Either they're all hiding, or a lot more of them have succumbed to this "cabin fever".
Good catch, codysmom. Charlie was from Manchester, and that's where Michael heard the accent before.
He has a really good ear for accents, then. I have trouble with British, Austrailian and New Zealand at times!
2costa said...
I know this is off the wall, but what if ben specifically wanted the fan four for his army, and even abbadon is working with ben...
I've had thoughts of this too. It just makes sense to me that Ben needs the f4 (or I guess we could say "The Island" needs them) because our Losties are screwing things up so bad..
1. Naomi...
to get the losties up the hill to fix communications so they can use the sat phones. Gives her the cover story about she's there to get Des for Penny so the losties will cooperate. Naomi seemed to know patchy when she was hurt after parachuting.
2. Charlotte & Daniel
to fix some of the stations and make the power station safe again (with those crazy losties around, you never know what's going to be discovered and "accidentally" blown up), swan and tempest included
3. Frank.....
to kill him (or strand him on the island) so he won't talk anymore about a conspiracy freakage
4. Miles?
Maybe so he can talk to the dead people like Patchy and get info only they knew
Ben wanted Desmond out of there.... Sayid wasn't supposed to leave, but Ben found a way to use him. He wanted Hurley out of there because he saw Jacob's cabin.... wanted Jack out of there because juliet likes him (and possibly used letting Jack go as leverage to get Juliet to stay),.... wants Kate out of there because she's too smart and dangerous. He finds a way to keep the o6 quiet about the truth, mostly by threatening to kill those who have stayed on the island.
Ben keeps Locke clost to him because Locke is the loose canon... you never know what he's going to do, but Ben knows he can easily manipulate him. It's just safer for everyone if Locke stays under control. Ben wants Juliet to stay close to Jack, because he's the other loose canon. Ben saw Jack and Locke as the two leader forces of the losties when he was in the Swan as their prisoner.
So the Temple is really a station? A sanctuary. Was there always a need for a safe house on the island?
Funny line from Hurley: "We like knew that forever ago." when Miles tells them they're there for Ben.
Interesting that Michael uses Jin's watch at the pawn shop.
Well, it seems like it's slow around here now. Will check in later tomorrow...
Geez... just looked at the clock! Time flies when....
G'nite!
Hi everybody. Haven't had time to read any comments and probably won't till morning. I am beginning to think when TPTB say there is a build up, it should be more like a let down. I thought this was the worst epi of the season so far.
Some observations
- So we do know Mike and Walt got off the island. I'm really bummed we didn't learn about how. The boat they had would have never made it in the open sea and they seemed a little short on gas. Really wish they would have expanded on that.
We know Mike & Walt couldn't assume their real identity, and that Mike feels really guilty about killing the girls. Confused on why he would tell Walt about it, especially with their troubled relationship?
- We now know why Jack couldn't jump off the bridge thanks to Mike's failed suicide attempt. The island won't let them take their own lives. Interesting the island still has control in the real world.
- Guessing it was Mike in the coffin now that we know he was using a fake name and it was in the ghetto, where Mike appeared to be residing.
- WTF. How is Tom alive? The timeline wouldn't be right with the freckage would it? Tom alive and in the real world when the freckage is found, but back on the island for the kidnapping gone bad. Not sure where to stand on this.
BTW - Snaps to all those who said Tom was gay. Good call!
- Ben continues to play Locke by telling Team Locke about Miles bargain after Locke left to take Miles back to jail. I'm done harping on Locke as we will see what an idiot he is in weeks to come.
- Not sure where to stand on the Alex abduction and killings. Leaning towards it was another Ben plot to get Alex back with the "others" and away from Karl. I think he conned them right into the idea it was the right thing to do. It could be the solo mission frank and the big freighter mercenarie went on. Leaning towards Ben plan. More in my prediction.
Rant - Really bummed they killed Roussseau. Here's a character that we spent three years getting invested in and learned absolutely nothing from her. She was the one character’s whose flash back I would have like to seen, and I would have liked to know more about her knowledge of the island. Bad job with that TPTB. Not that she was a great character or anything. Just could have given her a better role before killing her.
- Interesting how the two sides play each other about the freckage. Tom had the evidence, but paperwork is easy to fake for the others. Look at how easy they forge passports.
-Miles knows Mike is lying about his name because the ghost of Libby is following him.
- Loved how the bomb was a cartoon gun. Pull the trigger, stick slides out, note that says "BOOM" rolls down. I thought it was funny.
- Who wrote the captain note and what's the next move after Sayid outs Mike. I still don't think Mike wrote the note.
-Ben's message to Mike a manipulation as usual, but there is still a fine line between Ben lying and telling the truth. Won't kill the innocent? What qualifies you as innocent? Ben isn't a killer without conscience? Really, I'm lost on that one. I know he employs killers without conscience, take Mike for example, but wouldn't that make Ben the same thing. Ben is more moral than Widmore? And my personal favorite, now your one of the good guys. Wow. Ben's good! Oh, and he would like another grocery list please.
and now my bold prediction. This is based on watching the preview at the end of this epi, so if consider this a spoiler you want to skip the rest. Not a great revealation, just some logical thoughts based on the preview.
Ben has once again pulled the master manipulation by puppeteering Locke. Ben has successfully taken his true tribe of chosen good people (the others), and sent them to a hidden place to reside until the war blows over. Ben also sent Alex in that direction to be reunited with Team Ben and be safe. Karl and Rousseau weren't on the party list. He even got Alex to scream that she was his daughter :)
Ben has puppeted Locke into believing in his role and taking Team Locke to the others camp. What Ben has successfully done is replace the others with a new group, and the freightees won't know any better. Team Locke will have to fight to survive. Many may die or be captured in the fight for Ben. Not sure how Hurley gets out of this, but the big guy squeezes his way out somehow, with Aaron.
Ben will prevail in the war and allow members of Team Jack to leave the island to cover up all the missing people from the freighter and expose Widmore's freckage.
There is still a lot more to work out in this theory, but I thik this is the direction the story will go when it returns in a few weeks.
Good Morning!
diggitydirge said...How is Tom alive? The timeline wouldn't be right with the freckage would it? Tom alive and in the real world when the freckage is found, but back on the island for the kidnapping gone bad. Not sure where to stand on this.
I was thinking this too. Today when I get some time I'm going to figure this out proper, unless someone without a stuffy head-cold already did. But for now:
Cooper and Naomi both know of the freckage.
How many days ago was Cooper on the island? He was Killed in Season 3 Epi 19: The Brig. Tom was killed in Season 3 epi 22: TTLG, after Cooper has already been there and reported the freckage.
Michael and Walt left the island at what day 67. And the Losties have been there for over 100 days.
So I would think there was time for Tom to get off the island, see Michael, and get back in time to get killed.
Anyone else?
Okay, here goes....
WWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLTTTTTTT!!
That was a pretty good episode. I nailed it when I said that Michael's flash forward was after he left the island on bearing 375 or whatever. So is Michael unable to die? An we totally nailed back in season 2 or so about Mr. Friendly being, well, FABULOUS!
i feel as though the season - or maybe even the series - is gonna lead to the discovery of who's in the coffin . i feel like the jack flashforward we saw last season may be the latest flashforward chronologically - meaning it happens after all the other flashforwards .
i could be wrong, of course .
so at what point did tom leave the island ?? i like tom's boyfriend, by the way .
Very brief thoughts:
I missed the open because I was doing the dishes and got distracted! Poop!
Ben's map to the Temple...did y'all notice it seemed to be the exact same map as the one Charlotte and Dan had? Just with a different DHARMA symbol marking the Temple?? Is the Temple a DHARMA station? Is a station built somewhere near the Temple?
Who's doing the shooting, what are they shooting, and why are they shooting? If it was Ben's people doing the shooting, why was Danielle a target? After all, we just saw him say that when he goes to war, he doesn't kill innocents.
Walt in the Window was YOUNG Walt. Interesting....
Oh yeah, and Big Gay Tom. Heh. What a cutie.
good morning,
miles is becoming a very interesting guy to me. if he can speak with dead people it would seem like he would know a lot more than he is letting on.
if 80% of the people are telling lies on the boat, does that mean there is or was someone on the boat that was truly inocent. and for some reason i assume that if they were innocent they are dead now.
Also ALOT of dead people on this episode---minowski, libby, tom, naomi.
Good Morning LoCos!
There are several timeline things that are bugging me to. Here's a first crack at them.
Day 64 -- Ana and Libby shot by Michael
Day 65 -- brief overlap of Michael and Desmond post-funerals, pre-jungle trekking; formal introductions never aired
Day 67 -- Purpling; Michael and Walt leave Island on bearing 325
Day 74 -- Tom leaves with Ben, Jack and rest of Others from Hydra to return to main Island
Day 79 -- Locke enters 77 into Flame computer
Day 80 -- Tom playing football (like a girl) at Barracks with Jack
Day 81 - Locke sees Anthony Cooper in Ben's basement
Day 82 -- Ben gasses Barracks and Others bug out
Day 87 -- Naomi crashes on Island
Day 93 -- Tom shot by Sawyer; Freighter contacted by Jack
Day 94 -- Freighter Four land on Island
Day 96 -- Sayid and Desmond arrive on Freighter
Day 97/98 -- Copter missing from Freighter
So there is about a week where Tom could have gone to the mainland, recruited Michael, wined and dined Arturo, nabbed A. Coop and returned to the Island to play football with Jack. It's tight, but no tighter than anything else at this point.
The bigger problem to me is when does Ben call Michael masquerading as Walt? It has to either be before they bug out in Left Behind or from some comm. station while the Others are on the road or after Locke frees him. I'll need to rewatch to get a better idea of which of these seems most right. Also if it was before The Looking Glass was disabled, how did the signal get through? Did Juliet say he could block all but their signals? Maybe.
Finally, we still haven't been able to nail down the date of the discovery of the freckage. It had to be post-day 65 because Michael's mom would not decorate for Xmas until at least Thanksgiving Day. It was while Tom was in NYC right? So between days 74-80, which is early December.
Here's a question for those of you who think Ben had Karl and Danielle killed -- if he could do that, why send Juliet after Dan and Charlotte? Why not have this crack hit team get them too?
I agree that the map to the Temple looks a lot like Dan's map to the Tempest. I hope TPTB address that. I could be lazy props or it could mean they are one and the same which makes sending Juliet after Dan and Charlotte even more confusing.
Put me in the camp who wants to know how bearing 325 leads to rescue with no time slipping effects. As for the range on that boat, maybe it's powered by miracle poison gas and has a greater range than anyone gave it credit for.
I still think Ben staged the freckage. It's easier to get a picture of empty graves when you're the one who had them dug up. Changing the name of a buyer on a plane -- piece of cake. Convincing Michael that it's legit -- even easier.
I also wondered why didn't anyone on the freighter recognize Michael/Kevin as being one of the 815ers. Frank knew Juliet was a native right away. I guess they just had a manifest with names and not picture IDs. So Frank would know Juliet Burke wasn't on the manifest and wouldn't know Kevin Johnson.
Memphish: Thanks for that time line layout. It does seem that Tom would have had a "quickie" in NYC what with tracking and keeping tabs on Michael, and being with Arturo (yuck). Would he have had time to get Anthony Cooper in Tallahassee? Or was that someone else's errand? And your question about Ben's call to the boat as Walt brings up legitimate questions, too. It seemed he was communicating from his house in Otherton, using almost just a microphone and headset. Maybe signals were jammed for anyone else, but not him?
And here's another thing -- who are the real insiders in Ben's group? We've seen Ben off-Island, Alpert and now Tom. Also there was possibly Ethan, but we've never confirmed he was on-Island before we saw him in Miami sneaking around. After the purpling Mikhail and most of the Others believed that you wouldn't be able to get back to the Island. But Tom was subordinate to Ryan during the raid. So how does he rate indulgence time?
the only reason i tend to believe ben more than widmore is ben gets asked for proof alot and always has it.
naomi and the capt seem more like soldiers who just follow orders.
if i was the capt, and someone was sabatoging my boat wouldnt you be suspicious of american deck hand kevin johnson getting a job on your boat in fiji.
Polls up on my blog. Let me know if you want any additional ones. I didn't put up "Is Danielle dead?" because I know we all want her not to be, but we don't have enough info. to go on.
it was cool to see 100% of the people agree with me on your poll memphish....it helps to be first at it..LOL
Another thought:
Tom: "Did the bullet bounce off your skull, or did the gun just jam up on you?" (or something very close to that, anyway)
Does that sound like a question one AA member might ask another about his lowest point? Did Tom try to off himself at some point, too?
Agree with you, Bigdog, that Ben always seems to be ready for any contingency and conveniently had Tom had "proof" over to Michael. He knew that Michael would ask for it.
BTW: Wouldn't all the corpses taken from a graveyard in Thailand be mostly Asian and or people from Thailand? I guess we never actually saw footage of anyone else in the fake plane except the pilot.
Also, Naomi didn't seem to be too concerned that Kevin Johnson was Kevin Johnson when she checked him in on the boat. Wouldn't she have actually asked for proof of ID and he could show the fake passport? And that was a pretty big crate that was locked on deck for Kevin Johnson. Wouldn't that have aroused suspicions?
Kyle, me too, I missed the opening! I thought that it looked very much like Dan's map too. DarkUFO will most likely have some comparisons up soon.
Heheh...."I'm just peachy, thanks for asking!"
I knew that we could count on you for the timeline Memphish, thanks for the hard work! :-)
Memphish....
Thanks for the timeline. Just took your polls. Ben and Ben. Enjoy your blog.
Was I the only one that got the impression that everybody on last night's episode had just been to the beauty parlor. Nice hair...LOL
Why does everybody continue to listen to Ben when it always ends up so badly for them? Especially maddening to watch Locke "fall for it" over and over.
So since Ben let Michael go and is keeping tabs on him I guess that someone will be keeping tabs on the O6 since I'm still convinced it's Ben who lets them go as well. Will part of their story be that Widmore faked the wreckage? Could be given Jack's testimony. Ben would want to expose Widmore right? Though it might lead to more questions and more people looking for the Island; you know, Discovery Channel style. Shark Week hosted by Ezra J. Sharkington himself. Which just makes me wonder what's with this organization Ben has off-Island? What/who do those people think they're working for? Why aren't they special enough to go to the Island? Or are they so special they get to go back and forth?
did ben seemed surprised that mike actually pressed the button? assuming the voices are from the island why would libby tell him not to push the button?
Bigdog, I think that the true skill of someone who lies for a living is having many truths or stories so grand and filled with facts that it is hard to not beleive. Because Ben always has proof he has to be telling lies so grand he needs facts and proof to move the suspicion away from him.
You want really grinds my gears? We have to wait until April 20 something to see a new episode...
Why can't Michael die?
This type of revelation will fuel the theory of them being dead but in some limbo between heaven and hell. I do not subscribe to that belief but many will.
Tom's scenes were so funny last night.
Here we go with another stinkin' button! :-O
did they do us again yesterday, with a flash back and a flash foward. It truly seems that his car suicide attempt was ten years in the past. WHy would he have just a baby pic of walt if it was a flash foward, or the old model car. If it was a flashback like i think, it shows that the island has always needed mike. I could be partly from leaving the island and getting unstuck. I cant see how mike could be that hurt in the wreck, but be all good again to go on the freighter in such a short time, if it wasnt a flash back. It also seems to shed some light on WHy jack still has work to do and couldnt commit suicide, the lady crashing stopped him. There is also a part of me that thinks its all a big mind f. Tom took out the firing pin or something in mikes gun, reminded me how jins gun didnt work in the others ambush. Just as i mentioned the inverse redemption story of tom, mikes story is the inverse of the charlie tale, in that story the island wanted to kill charlie, until it got it right, where as mike couldnt kill himself if he wanted.
A strange thing i noticed is the axe was in the wall of the freighter before they ever left, I wonder if this is the first time the freighter has been to the island?
makes sense why ben shot locke, if he still "had work to do" the island wouldnt let locke die, but at the same time it could just be ben playing everyone, if he is manipulating mike, then he is probably manipulating walt as well, so its interesting if ben had walt appear to locke in the pit..,
2Costa, why would he see Libby if it was before he left the island? IF he can't die and heals as fast as Locke does then I see not reason not to beleive it was a flashback/forward...flashback to after he left the island...does that make any sense?
Oh, and it's absolutely the same handwriting. TPTB really can't expect us to not notice this. Has to be meaningful.
Good call 2Costa that the Island wouldn't let Ben kill Locke because he has work to do.
I think all the flash was a flashback from Michael getting off the Island forward.
I think the Temple may be the portal the Others use to get on/off the Island. The Get Lost guys say the logo resembles an Event Horizon, and Karl and Alex didn't know about the site.
thrasher could it be that mike cant die before a cerain time like charlie.
i keep thinking that you cant change the future
Here's the link to the Get Lost Easter Egg post. It's very good and comprehensive.
So you're saying BigDog that the Island is Michael (and future Jack's) version of Desmond warding off death left and right?
the tom time works out, cooper and naomi didnt arrive until at least 20 days after the purpling. Mike was only off the island for a few days before tom approached him. for this theory to be true the car crash had to be a flashback to some years earlier, which im 99.9 percent sure it was. this would also help explain why mike had that wierd look on his face when he shot libby, i beleive that was the first time mike saw libby on the island, but he had a deja vu feeling from seeing her after his crash years earlier. Was it just me or did the white smoke around mikes car seem like a white version of the black smoke, i mean in the way it moved and behaved...
ill have to ewatch it again, but it seemed like a lot of old cars on the street when mike took off driving. I think that ben and the hawkin camp both want to sell it like there is no way to change things, but i think thats false. I think that ben uses jacob or the island or the island computer to forecast a future he likes and puts the pieces in place. If the future was set why fake planes and all the puppetmastery, it would all work out the same anyway right, thats the lie. The future can be changed
little did tom know it would be his last r&r mission off the island
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