Let's take a look at ABC's synopsis...
"Feeling that their rescue is close at hand, the survivors don't know whether to believe Charlie's final message that the people claiming to liberate them are not who they seem to be. The band of friends, family, enemies and strangers must continue to work together against the cruel weather and harsh terrain if they want to stay alive. But as they have discovered during their 70-plus days on the island, danger and mystery loom behind every corner, and those they thought could be trusted may turn against them. Even heroes have secrets..."
Vague enough for you? If we really want to know what's going on we're going to have to do what we do best: Watch, hash, and re-hash everything. In preparation, what are the questions that we should be asking going into this episode? Here's to Season 4!
Wednesday, January 30, 2008
The Beginning of the End - Season 4, Episode 1
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Find815 is missing critical content and cannot be displayed at this time. We hope to resolve the issue shortly and apologise for any inconvenience.
That is the message I get on find815.com. Does that mean it is down?
someday we're gonna have to get into the maxwell site, right ?
Good prediction Scoutpost, but if Hurley kills himself I am now holding you responsible...lol
Scoutpost - Take it back. :) They've already gotten Boone and Charlie. Without Hurley, the show will have no soul at all.
Right Ded......Drink Your Ovaltine.
My prediction for who gets off the Island (from 1/15/2008 09:55:00 PM on the Book Club Season Finale post) is holding strong! I even picked 6 escapees!
EF!, Maxwell's server resets in just about 4 hours. Looks like it'll be a late night!
I'm with you, Kyle!
It was Christian Shepherd in the chair, Lostpedia has him listed. Probably Locke looking out the window. Thing is, why would Jacob manifest in Christian's form to Locke or Hurley? Surely they never met before. My theory:
Jacob is Christian's twin brother, aka Bad Twin.
Kyle did you get in to maxwell?
Nope, Maxwell won't be even theoretically available until 3:55 from now (about 2:17AM Central).
As for Find815 (if that's what you meant), I got in, but nothing populated the action area of the screen. My Progress So Far was blank. No timer, no Sam's Desk. I think we're just too fast, or TPTB are way too damn slow.
Yeah I meant Maxwell, but I got the same as you on 815, no progress or desk or anything, the story sofar, login, and story continues in bars just kept loading.
Maxwell now responds that their server is secured. There's got to be a login somewhere.
- Interesting that Locke pops up near Jacob's cabin.
- I'm most confused by: Hurley apologizing to Jack for going with Locke, and saying that Jack was right. Of course, I'm confused by Charlie, too.
- What's with these low-altitude helicopter jumps? I don't see you how you can jump out and open a parachute with that little altitude! That helicopter definitely looked out of control.
- Definitely think tonight's flash forward was before Jack's from last season. Jack mentions wanting to "grow a beard," he doesn't look like he's an addict, and isn't distraught about getting back to the island. I think it's clear.
Sorry for my prediction, it makes me sad too....and for the record, when have I ever predicted anything correctly? LOL
But lets say it does happen, and Jack was ready to kill himself after reading about someone else who had died- does anyone remember what the newspaper clip said- was the death of the mystery person a suicide too? If so, then maybe the person in the coffin is one of the 6 and they're all so screwed up that they're all trying to kill themselves? And it still makes me wonder who Kate is with in the flash forward. Dang this stuff is so good and there are so many questions, I can't believe we only have 8 epis.
ooooo- just saw the Oceanic commercial for myself. Of course I can't get on find815........!
scoutpost - It just makes so darn much sense. That's why I wish you hadn't said it. Even the part about Kate not going to the funeral I guess - maybe some real animosity builds up between the LOCKeS and the jacKEYS.
just finished watching the epi and have to catch up on comments. Great epi. Here are oms things i jotted down:
1. Anyone catch the whispers. Their seemed to be two voices having a discussion. It seemed like a man and a woman.
2. Obviously to be a part of the Oceanic 6, you had to agree to lie abou the other people on the island and keep it a secret. Hurley is obviously hanuted by this.
3. From a timeline perspective, Hurley's flash forward takes place before Jack's from TTLG. Jack already seems to feel guilty, atleast thats what I got from the drinking/car chase scene, but appeared to be leading anormal life until he shot hoops with Hurley. Things seem to go downhill from there.
4. Oceanic 6 prediction: So we know Kate, Jack, and Hurley get off the island. I predict the other three are Sun & Jin (because Sun has to leave or she will die during child birth, and Claire, Sayid (because he has risked everything to get off the island.)
5. Even in captivity, Ben continues to try to manipulate Jack.
6. Who's Naomi's sister?
7. The house following Hurley was a good scene. Seems like there are two people in Jacobs house. You can see Jacob in the chair, and another person (looked like they had a beard to me) when they put their eye up to the hole.
gonna catch up on comments now.
Diggity - That's seven!
My prediction for the other three would be Sawyer, Sayid, and Sun.
Diggity,
So your prediction for the 6 is seven people... are you taking lessons from TPTB or their interns... lol
I guess I count Sun & Jin as one person. :)
Well i'm off for the night, its been like old times around here and I love it. But now its time to get som ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
just finished reading the comments. Agreed the best line of the night was when Ben asked Jack for permission to o with John.
Good idea about Hurley committing suicide but wouldn't someone, even his family be at the funeral. I could still see it happening but maybe Hurley isn't the mystery man in the coffin.
Not ready to make the jump that it's Christian in the chair. The caps at DocArtz do a great job of hiding the face.
One last thing for Diggity...
Tecjnically your choice for the six is Eight because of the baby... lol
Night all.
oceanic six thats awsome
so what was the big deal from Oceanic during Eli Stone? I was so fed up wth the ending to the ARG I wasn't even trying to help TPTB drive ratings up on that show.
DeDJeZTeR said...
One last thing for Diggity...
Tecjnically your choice for the six is Eight because of the baby... lol
once again you're right. I stand by my prediction and gorilla math:)
rewatching the epi again. It's kind of funny all the losties are partying by the radio tower and Naomi's body (appearing to be dead)is right in the middle of them.
first my guess for coffin person would be ben. hes the only one on the island that i can see nobody going to the funeral. everyone is so fast to jump to the conclusion the 6 have the stars like jin and claire. . . dont be so sure
if you leave find 815.com up for a while it loads! nothing new from what i can see
take that back. . .new email whats 411151057!?!?
Hey Diggity- I don't think that Hurley is the one in the coffin, I was thinking that it may be one of the other 6...I think Hurley may kill himself and then that's when Jack starts looking for the island again and drinking heavily, etc. But who knows. I really hope Hurley doesn't kill himself. But the flash forwards so far are really sad.
So if the Oceanic 6 are lying- saying they are the only survivors, then is Oceanic behind the cover up? Then what is the Maxwell Groups role? And who are the freighter people working for and are they in on the cover up, or like someone said, were they duped somehow, too?
Interesting that Locke made fun of the Others for living in those barracks and not communing with the island - and now where does he want to take everyone?
If old smokey is an island security system, then do you think it will go after any of the freighter people? You would think it would.
good article over at the lage. The guy who visits Hurley in the hospital, Matthew Abaddon, has a meanigful name.
Abaddon (Hebrew:אבדון,Avaddon - destruction, abyss) , in demonology, was chief of the demons of the seventh hierarchy. He was called The Destroyer and, in the Book of Revelation, St John called him the King of the locusts (Rev 9: 7-11).
this was a great ctach by somone on the lage. I may have missed it here, but I don't remeber seeing it.
When Hurley sees someone swimming towards him in the police station mirror, right before the glass breaks the swimmer puts his hands on the glass and the hand reads "they need you." if you go back and frame by frame it you will see the writing clear as day. Atleast I did on my 65 inch HD.
Just finished. I guess we're all saying OMG, WTF, among other things! LOL Going to catch-up...
Feh. When I watched it the first time, I was convinced that the eye that looked out at hurley was locke's. But then I looked at a screenshot of the eye side-by-side with a bunch of eye shots on lostpedia, and now I don't think it was locke's eye. It might have been Jacob's eye, but I might even have been another Hurley looking back!
More mysteries to ponder!
night all.
just finished watching the second time....more observations:
Hurley finally feels like has luck has changed, does a sweet cannonball, and realizes that maybe nothing has changed once he gets the news. Sad. He seemed so releived.
When Hurley sees someone swimming towards him in the police station mirror, right before the glass breaks the swimmer puts his hands on the glass and the hand reads "they need you." That was clutch for those who saw it the first time.
I'm not ready to say that smokey has made it off island, but how did the other mental patient see Charlie if he's dead. Was the dude that looney?
Jack is ready to eliminate anything that might keep him from leaving the island. Ben and Locke. Him trying to shoot Locke was hilarious.
There were way too many Eli Stone promo's.
Ben was the utlimate smart ass this epi. "Well technically, he didn't kill her yet." and the permission to go with John lines were great.
Hugo chooses Charlie over Locke and Jack. It just so happens Locke's view was in line with the last thing Charlie did.
The people who go with John. Hurley. Clair and Aaron, Rousseau + Alex, + Karl and Ben, Sawyer and three unknowns.
In the past, when the rain comes bad things happen. During this storm, the rescue party arrives.
Wow looking at the screencaps over at DarkUFO- they have a really clear one of Christian sitting in Jacob's chair. As far as the eye...I'm not sure we know that eye- it looks kind of brown/green, and is not a really round eye. I'm not saying it's Patchy's eye, but it is kind of like his. Sheesh, I'll probably have nightmares about that eye peeking back!
Well, one thing I learned tonight: My hubby will not watch this show with commercials! LOL
Some quick thoughts:
1. Agree with most of you that the opening was not mind-blowing as in other seasons. Knew that was Hurley's car. His Dad must have worked on it as an homage to Hurley. Hurley must have shown it to Jack when they got back.
2. Love the connection that it's Ana Lucia's partner that interviews Hurley.
3. Would not have seen "they need you" without you, diggity. Thanks.
This makes it even more so that Hurley is imagining Charlie warning him like he did Desmond in TLG. The hoodie is a giveaway, too.
4. Ben sure has a smug look when Jack and Kate hug. Of course, it comes out later Kate took the phone. Ben is still working everyone.
5. How could Naomi have dragged herself off like that and climbed a tree. The look Kate gave her when she looked at her back was, I think, because the knife was not there. Can one pull a knife out of one's back?
6. The word "they" is used a lot tonight with a lot of potential meaning: Hugo's vision of Charlie holding up his hand to the glass. Matthew Abaddon saying "Are THEY still alive?" Hurley's vision of Charlie at Santa Rosa, "THEY need you, Hugo."
7. Did think Haitian when I first saw Matthew Abaddon! LOL Who is Abaddon working for? Can't really be Oceanic -- having no business card is pretty suspicious. Is he a freighter guy? Other?
8. OMG! The cabin scene! I first thought it was Christian (something I've said since the beginning), and the caps confirm it (thanks Ange). My first thought of the eye was Patchy (who will never die). Didn't think it was Locke. Hope the audio experts can decipher the whispers.
9. Why was Hurley painting a picture of an Eskimo and an igloo at Santa Rosa?
10. The scene with Hurley telling Claire about Charlie...so sad and well done.
11. Jack begins to doubt self when they start choosing up sides. The Oceanic 6 are split up here, so it's not one group gets off and one stays.
12. So this FF is before S3 ender FF. Jack is beginning to drink and it thinking about growing a beard.
13. So what are they lying about? Are they covering for Oceanic or for something that occurred in the "rescue"?
14. "We're never going back," says Jack. "Never say never", says Hurley!
TMG website audio now works!!!
I wonder if Matthew Abaddon arranged Kate's freedom? Maybe that's why she isn't in jail?
Did like how they opened with that pile of mangoes against a blue sky...which turned out to be a painted scene on a truck in a fruit company.
Hurley definitely says "it" when talking to Jack in the gym. Is "it" Jacob?
I can't get to sleep, keep thinking of stuff...When Hurley sees the hooded "Charlie" in the police station and has "they need you" on his hand, do you think something is going to go very wrong on the island? I mean it is cruel of course to just leave a bunch of people alive on an island without telling anyone, but saying they "need" him makes me wonder if all hell breaks loose there, maybe there is a showdown between Locke and Jacob or who knows what and they are all in danger? Maybe smokey goes on a rampage...
I meant to say showdown between Locke and Ben. Not Jacob.
Ok I'm going to bed now...shutting brain down. Goodnight Maven!
Me, too! Scoutpost. Night.
Morning Everyone!
!!That was a great episode!!
When it started outside the island, I was like, damn it! But when realizing it was a flashforward, I settled in nicely into my chair
Just like a game of "Clue", this shows always has you guessing.
- Why was Sam's dad in Jacob's cabin?
- Why no mention of Walt?
- Where was the smoke monster during this whole time?
- Who are the remaining Oceanic 6?
- Who are "they" or "it"?
Overall, I am very happy to be pondering questions like these every Friday morning.
Welcome Back Lost!
Have a great day everyone,
Mazzy
hi peeps. Don't think I ever posted here before, but I've followed both games.
Have downloaded, watched and read comments. Feeling very tired now so I don't think I'll say much except:
Maven, my first thought abou tHurley painting eskimos was it was about as far away from the island as you could get
Hey, all! I did watch last night! I'm disappointed too that the Find 815 story seems to be over with questions still unanswered.
The other patient seeing Charlie is clear evidence that Charlie was not in Hurley's mind. A manifestation of the island again? We know it can do that with the dead people there. Maybe with live people too under certain circumstances?
Maybe "they" and "it" aren't the people the Oceanic 6 left behind but the island itself? It seems consistent with the theory that the island becomes quite "attached" to the people who come there. What will that mean for the freighter guys?
Good catch about bad things happening in rain and the writing on Charlie's hand in the police station.
As for the cabin, my gut reaction was that it was Jack. Not the real Jack. I don't have an explanation for it. But the idea of Jack trapped in the cabin with his father, and Jack's intense, almost pathological desire to leave the island, has a similar emotional and psychological "taste" as that scene. Jack worked hard to get out from under his father's shadow but was ultimately trapped by it (he still has to play hero all the time). Likewise Jack is working hard to get away from the island but it will actually trap him. Part of his soul is already in the cabin with "Jacob." Dunno. Just a thought.
I'd love to see a screen cap of the eye from Jacob's cabin to compare. Anybody know where it might be posted?
Just got to read some posts after a shower and coffee...
Great thoughts Raven!
I have another thought:
- Is the person in the casket one of the Oceanic 6? If so, that person is not well liked.
Mazzy
Having been able to pause it on a huge screen I can tell you that it was certainly Christian Sheppard, all decked out in his suit. As far as the rescuer, I think his helicopter was also about to crash so the pilot had him bail out and the pilot took off.
Why would they send one man in to rescue them? They would have pulled the ship in closer and either came on shore with small rescue boats or landed the helicopters in a large clearing.
There is more to these frieghts than meets the eye. Perhaps their vehicles will transform!!! LOL
PEace & Namaste
I found screen caps here:
http://www.docarzt.com/lost-easter-eggs/who-is-in-the-cabin.php
Off to work with no access to this site. Chat with you all over the weekend or Monday for sure!
"There is more to these frieghts than meets the eye. Perhaps their vehicles will transform!!!"
LMAO
Thanks, Fun Box!
Jacob's eye from Lostpedia
Jack's eye
Jacob's eye is darker than the one from this episode. It could be Jack's eye. As for the person possibly having a beard, future Jack has a beard.
Possibly Desmond's eye too.
It could be Patchy's eye without the eye patch, but I kind of doubt it. His lids make his eyes squinty and they seem darker than the one from this episode.
Locke's eye is blue and heavy lidded.
I think my money is on it being Jack's eye, especially with his father issues and his island issues sort of blending emotionally and psychologically. Or maybe it really is future Jack?
Oh BTW, I'm new to this Blogging stuff. Is there like a membership to this site (i.e. forums)? I find this site real nice so far and was referred to it by Dennis from the Cloverfield blog which he runs and does an awesome job maintaining. Great way to communicate with other Lost fans due to the fact my wife and kids do not watch the show.
Many Thanks,
Mazzy
Great Stuff Twink!
Damn.. I have to learn how to HTML /cry
Welcome, fun box! Dennis is one of our beloved admins. Seems like lots of us are still asleep today. :-)
As for learning HTML, there's actually very little we can do here in the comments. Here's a site with good tutorials though http://www.htmlgoodies.com/
Welcome Fun Box!
The Lost Community has a post called "Blog Commenting 101" which is another great place to get acquainted with what goes on in the comments of this particular blog.
Welcome Carol! Comment more!
Penuel Prediction:
"Never Say Never" will be an episode title either a the end of Season 4 or at the end of the series. Whatever the case, it will be the title of the episode in which we see Jack's triumphant and/or tragic return to the island.
Diggity,
Thanks for the insights about Abaddon & about Charlie's hand! That's why I love this place...
Good Morning LoCos! So many places on the internet to go this morning, so little time and coffee. A few things for now.
Great job on the "They need you" Easter Egg Diggity.
Minnesota Writer suggested that Jacob is Christian's Bad Twin. I'd buy that more but for the mobisode and the "my son" comment. Still, could be. Also, clearly the Jacob we saw in TMBTC wasn't Christian. I think it's more the case that Christian was visiting Jacob and that the eye was Jacob (though to me it looks like Patchy) than Christian is Jacob.
Also, do you think this version of the "eye shot" is going to be repeated? It's not an eye opening, but still. Nice twist on that convention.
Where do you think the "lawyer" would have moved Hurley? A mental hospital in Iceland maybe?
I read this on another site, but I like it. What if TTLG Jack starts seeing Christian back in LA like Hurley saw Charlie and that explains the whole "get my father down here" thing. Not to mention the willingness to jump off a bridge.
The Charlie vision -- just Hurley's guilt and the way his brain manifests it like it did with Dave when he was guilty about the deck? Or is the Island managing to manifest itself off Island like the bus that ran down Juliet's husband possibly? And what do we think the other psych patient saw?
Another good idea is that Kate may not be one of the 6, but that the other 6 have to keep their secret to protect her from going to jail. This would also allow higher numbers than 6 as discussed above. :)
Last thing. I found this on Abaddon: But several mystery religions use "Abaddon" to refer to The Dark Cave or "The Trial" which one must go through in order to have Higher Truth revealed to you.
A simplistic explaination would be that the tree on Dagobah is a form of Abaddon, as are the Peyote journeys undertaken by Shamans of various faiths.
Jesus' time in the desert, as well as John the Baptists' are Times of Abaddon according to the Mystery religions, and Plato's Cave Scenario is based in part on Mystery religions (of which Plato was an initiate.)
So he could be more than the Devil, he could be a trial.
Did anyone think that Naomi's final words ("Tell my sister I love her") was a secret code? That whole scene was sorta funny to me.
Regarding further speculation about who was in the coffin. Remember this translation from last year's newspaper article:
"The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue.
Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft.
Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room.
According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son.
Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening."
Welcome to the Lost Community, Carol and Mazzy!
There's no message boards, just the blog. I'm glad you've found us, feel free to jump on in. No theory is too "out there" (although Chucklez pushes the envelope with 'purgatory'--lol).
If you haven't found it yet, the Blog Commenting 101 that Penuel mentioned is linked on the main page, on the right side. I use it almost everytime I want to include a link, italicize or make something bold.
Help yourselves to the milk and cookies!
I thought we decided that the person in the coffin was someone we've yet to meet...Someone whose name is a reference to John Latham.
John Latham's Wikepedia
John Latham's Real Obituary
Welcome Mazzy and Carol and any other new contributors!
I guess the coffin person could be someone who helps the Oceanic 6 leave the Island and then starts the whole secret keeping campaign that's driving everyone but Kate crazy. After seeing Hurley, why is Kate able to hold it together so well with her Volvo and eye makeup?
Deven, I don't know what to make of that either other than it reminds me of Juliet and her tie with her sister. Also I think it could show us how close George and Naomi are that she would give her "co-worker" that message.
memphish said:
Where do you think the "lawyer" would have moved Hurley? A mental hospital in Iceland maybe?
Oooooh! That's a good one, Memphish!
I agree that future Jack could have been tipped over the deep end by having Christian appear to him like Charlie appeared to Hurley.
RE: John Lantham - That was a good reminder. Thanks! What if more than just the Oceanic 6 were rescued (either Losties or Others), but the others had to be given new identities and were smuggled in secretly compared with the publicity of the Oceanic 6. What if John Lantham is Sawyer? He needs a new psuedonymn now that Sawyer is dead.
Thanks a ton everyone for your warm welcome and helpful links.
This coffin mystery is driving me nuts! :P
That's right. The person in the coffin could be one of the freighter people too.
Good morning LoCos!
I haven't had time to catch up yet, but I thought last night's episode was great, and I look forward to the next seven weeks!
WooHoo, LOST is BACK! :)
Lostpedia quotes something Cuse said about the identity of the person in the coffin. Only slightly spoilery. Link
Didn't Jack tell Kate he went to the funeral? What was her reaction? I'm not finding it at Lostpedia. Thanks!
Hi, good morning!!
Penuel, very good to see your name again! I was an avid follower of TLEC and I can't tell you how happy I am for this blog!!
RE: the coffin
I still feel like it has to be Michael, who else do we know who has a teenage son? I mean, I suppose it could be someone we don't know yet, but didn't Darlton say in a podcast during TLE that it is someone we have seen before back then?
BTW: my birthday is April 21st! (add me, add me, please!?!
xxoo
Amused I am sorry to correct you but we do indeed have a sister Message board which can be found here
The Lost Community Message Board
So Mazzy if you feel more comfortable with a MB set up you can always post there as well.
Lets keep it in the family yo!
As for Naomi pulling the knife out of her own back, I had assumed that the focus n the knife after Ben talked to Danielle was to hint that Danielle pulled the knife from her back off camera and then the Island gave her enough strength to try and survive, but critical injuries tend to lead to death, so she only got so far.
Ah, found it.
When she asks why he called her, he pulls out the newspaper clipping and says he had hoped to see her at the funeral. She replies, "Why would I go to the funeral?"
That doesn't preclude Sawyer then or the freighter people. If Kate and Sawyer have a falling out (as it appears from last night they are starting to do) then the above would be a logical reason why Jack thought Kate would be there and why Kate wouldn't go.
The knife got pulled out? I thought she said to Kate "this knife in my back" indicating that it was still there. Good idea about the island giving her the extra strength.
I missed the part about her sister until reading it here. If she doesn't have a sister and they know it, it could have been code to let the freighter people know what she said before was not true as well.
Twinkle,
She said to Jack
"Why would I go tothe funeral?"
Like a code for "there's a man in my closet holding a gun on my daughter?"
Twinkle!!!:D You post so quickly, I knew I had read or heard that somewhere!!
Be sure to check out Vozzek's Things I Noticed post at Dark UFO. There are some especially interesting things about Naomi's phone and the need to change the frequency. I agree that has to mean something, but please, not another group of people. Also I like the Jacob part. I think Jacob is reaching out to Hurley, though I don't understand why or why he would show him Jack's dad.
Has anyone figured out the whispers yet? That may answer my previous question.
Imported from another site: Because the cop asked Hurley if he met Ana Lucia "in the airport" or "on the plane", I'm assuming that he and the rest of the world believe that everyone else on flight 815 died during the crash (or else he would have asked "did you meet her on the island?")
I noticed this at the time too. I can't wait to see where they claim to have been for the last however many days it will have been before they turn up in the real world.
Twinkle,
You never actually see the knife pulled out and my previos statment isn't good either, unless Naomi had a knife of her own, the knife fromher back was the one she put to Kates throat.
Question about Desmond -- Was Desmond's vision of Claire leaving in a helicopter a)wrong from the first or b)did the puzzle pieces change and if so what changed them?
I just wish she'd put the knife to someone else's throat - someone I didn't know was going to live and get off the island. Like, um, well anyone but Jack, Hurley, and Kate actually. Although I suppose this one opens up the idea that Kate wasn't really alive in the other flash forward. Maybe Jack's seeing visions of his creepy dead ex-almost girlfriend.
Or did Desmond lie because he got a future flash of he and Penny together?
Lost2010,
How would you make a phone call to a vision... sre visions allowed to hold cell phone numers and do her minutes roll over to the afterlife?.. lol
ded - I don't think there are any limitations on what visions can do. :) I mean if they can wear sunglasses and smack mental patients, why not talk on the phone. . .
regarless if charlie was real or just a creation of hurley mind still showed that thwere are survivors of flight 815 on the island,"they need you ". I think lance riddick was there to try to test hugo, to see if he could be tricked into telling his secret. The oceanic announcement that flight 815 was found intact with all dead was fishy, because they said they werent gonna release the video of the bodies. Do we have any guesse who the other 3 oceanic 6 are, one was in the coffin and it seems like it is either mike or locke in the coffin. The announcement that oceanic was found off bali coincides with the secret that hugo jack and kate are keeping, because if you noticed Ana lucia partner asked hugo uif he met her on the plan and never mention if he met her on the island, by keeping with the bali crash story the location of the island is secure, and i can imagine that their cover story is somehow jack was a big hero in saving the other five of the oceanic six from the bottom of the ocean. I also think that the flash fowards are not the end of the series I think there may be a part where jack hugo and kate do indeed try to make it back to the island. The way that charlie swam up to the glass in the police station in hurleys mind makes me think charlie was really projecting to hley because hurley never saw charlie swim up to the glass in the looking glass only desmond did. I also think that since hurley saw jacob cabin that he is on the special list with locke and walt, so it wouldnt surprise me if somehow walt and locke were also part of the oceanic 6 perhaps bens way tp rpotect his primacy....
Good point, Ded. I guess I just assumed it was Naomi's knife and not the one from her back.
I too noticed that about Hurley and the cop. I wonder where everybody thinks the Oceanic 6 was while waiting for rescue. It sure seems like they put forth the story that all those who survived were rescued.
We still don't know if Desmond's vision of Claire leaving the island will come true or not. But all the others of his have, except for his intervention.
Great episode. Love the "Oceanic 6" mystery. Here's hoping the next three (or four) flash-forwards tell us who got off the island. I don't think it would be giving too much away for TPTB to do that. I'm currently reading Stephen King's It, and I'm noticing similarities between King's writing style and Lost. King is the master of telling you some of what's going to happen, but leaving out enough of the hows and whys to keep the reader flipping pages. The bis story structure in It is a flashback/flashforward thing not unlike what's happening on our favorite TV show.
I can dig the idea that it was Michael in the coffin. He was responsible for Kate, Jack and Sawyer's capture. Maybe he felt guilty about what he'd done and was working with Jack to figure out how to get back to the island — so when Jack saw he'd killed himself, he was distraught because he saw his chance to return slipping away.
On a similar line of thought, does anyone else think Michael is on the freighter? Maybe he and Walt were picked up by them.
And if Michael and Walt both made it back to America, they might be two of the Oceanic 6 (at least Michael...I could see them not counting Walt). Just because we haven't seen them in more than a season doesn't mean they weren't on the flight, too.
memphish said…The Charlie vision -- just Hurley's guilt and the way his brain manifests it like it did with Dave when he was guilty about the deck? Or is the Island managing to manifest itself off Island like the bus that ran down Juliet's husband possibly? And what do we think the other psych patient saw?
I think that we are doing exactly what the writers want us to do in that we are now all topsy turvy with the dead/not dead thing. I’m still not sure if Dave was even real, but if Charlie was real then not there it certainly opens the possibilities that dead=not dead, but not really alive either. As for the mental patient…we think he saw Charlie, but for all we know that’s just what we’re being led to think right now.
I love Lost!
Hi Carol and fun box boards!
Deven said...Did anyone think that Naomi's final words ("Tell my sister I love her") was a secret code? That whole scene was sorta funny to me.
YES! I’m not sure if it’s code or not, but I do think it’s meant to make us think about who her sister could be!
I love Lost!
Penuel Oh my gosh! I totally forgot about that John Lantham stuff…it could be a “6” using an alias, or someone else just tied up in the whole mess who offed themselves from guilt.
Also as an aside if you didn't play the Find815 Game you may want to chek it out. It had some interesting additional information about the wreckage find of flight 815 (that Naomi mentions in S3) as it's endgame. And it may not be over yet...we did a sister blog to TLC Oceanic COnspiracies, that has all the info you need, if you wanted to have a look!
Oh, and I think a lot of what we saw last night (Charlie; the patient who told Hurley that Charlie was there; maybe even Abbadon) was in Hurley's head. The fact that Jacob's cabin kept appearing and disappearing suggests it (and those inside of it) weren't there either.
Of course, just because something's in his head doesn't mean it's not "real," or that it's not being projected into his head from somewhere/one/thing else.
I was thinking about the Oceanic 6 thing though. (And it's always dangerous when I think.) I mean, say Juliet and Alex and Karl go back - Oceanic wouldn't have to claim them - they could just be scuttled off in a black car. And if they can sweep away Hurley's legal troubles, why not Kate's? Maybe she doesn't count either. Maybe she's going as Zsa Zsa Gaboom and has taken Nikki's role on Expose.
Here's what I'm wondering. If more got rescued, and 6 agreed to be the public - "Oceanic 6", that would be a better explanation for the whole - 'Are the rest of them really dead?' thing.
See, if a bunch of them have been declared dead but are really in a witness protection type thing, then that may really be Smokey coming to ask Hurley if the rest are really dead.
my point with charlie is that real or not hugos mind wouldnt say they still need u if they were all dead. Some 40 plus people will either be killed or not get off the island. Locke knew exactly what the frieghter people were doing there because they came because he pushed 77 on the computer the frieghter people believe that the island has been compromised by hostiles and are prolly there to clean up, they prolly didnt even know about 815, that why they were looking for desmond because desomnd was the only de facto dharma guy left because kelvin left him to push the button in the swan. I think that why locke want to go to the barracks because he belives that they wont be purged their becusae that is where official dharma people should be, but i think its risky ,becuase just like 9/11 has shown us more security can become its own prison, with all the 815'ers in th e barracks all someone would have to do is turn on the sonic fence and they will all be trapped inside the barracks, and i saw a clip of kate whick looked like she was sitting next to the torched remains of the barracks so wonder what happens...
good point i think that only the 815er need apply for possible oceanic 6 honors so if julliette gets rescued its not gonna be publicsized
I feel like when the rescuers come to the island, they know their helicopter is going to crash, and hence, always bail out. Those low-altitude jumps are a bit ridiculous, though!
Anyone recognize the actor that plays the rescuer at the end? He was recently in "Rescue Dawn" with Christian Bale, and I think he's a great, creepy addition to the show!
No spoilers 2Costa. Please!
New Doc Jensen.
Also, warming up to the idea. What if Jack has searched around and found out the new names for the old people, but Kate has been pretty much following the rules (unless she's the Rollover Ghost of course). Her confusion over the article might just be that she truly doesn't know who John Latham is - but Jack knows that it's - well could be anybody.
the secret cover story definetly has to jive with the plane they found off bali or else oceanic would look like liers. I beleive this story is used to protect the real location of the island, so yes as i mentioned earlier nobody thinks they were shipwrecked not on dharma island anyway. Or else the cop would have asked if he met her on the island, and its so fishy that the cvideo of the bodies wasnt shown, but i also think all this points to time being stopped on the island or moving very slow.becuase oceanic is saying the smae thing about 815 that cooper and naomi saaid but thay are saying two years later right, it reminds me of how ben said the looking glass was flooded before it happened and how walt has aged so fast but richard has not. If walt left the island and is aging at a regular clip then goes back and richard kees his youthful glow by only leaving the island sparingly. Jack's bearded pill popping phase was chronologically sometime earleir this year, but i dont think its that far past him getting back or huley losing his mind in the institiution, plus remember they said they would explain walts growth. I think that hurley couldnt have seen the exact jacob shack if it wasnt real, i think that you not only have to be special to see jacob you have to be special to see the shack...
tim the helicopter didnt crash it left, they didnt land because they wanted to scout out why naomi was dead and they are not there for a rescue mission they are probably there to clean up the hostiles, so they dont know if the 815'ers have been lured to the dark side or not...
jack was jack shepard in his future flash, the only one that might have a fake identity is kate to cover up her criminal past, but they wouldnt be the oceanic six if they changed their identities...
the oceanic guy(lance riddick) probably knows what happened to the other he was just trying to see if a smooth talker could get info out of hurley, if hurley would have let anything slip im sure they would have shut him up or involuntarily tranferred him to a dharma hospital....
in the same way that the the orchid made a copy of the rabbit, the swan malfunction might have made a copy of the plane and the survivors. but i think its more likely that they were string sam alongfin815) dot com to find that plane so there were no questions about the validity of the crash, because the acted like sam was just cooincidentially there, but i think they played him and i agree it might not be over because sam could keep looking if he foinds out if wasa ruse....
the one evil guy used sam as proof of the fact that it was really flight 815 but i havent seen anything that makes it a for sure thing no glimps of any reall bodies
2costa - You don't think Sawyer would need a fake identity if he went back? If you know for sure he doesn't don't tell me. And honestly, that's the shadiest group of people on that plane that I ever saw. I think the international law enforcement community may have been thrilled to believe they were all dead.
I still wanna know where Walt is or went...
See, there's a good point. I bet they gave Walt a new identity too - so that he could live out his childhood without the gleam of his O6 celebrity overshadowing ever day of his life. :)
LOL! Lost2010! I bet they were thrilled.
I think the Oceanic 6 used their natural identities but anyone else who got off might have had a new one. Except for Sawyer maybe. How comfortable can a con man be with his real name? Anyway, I'm sticking to my current pet theories, that it's Sawyer in the casket in TTLG and that it's Jack in the cabin with Christian Shepherd. :-)
i dont think sawyer is gonna make it off the island, they have beeen grooming him to be a killer from the beginning. it started with shrimp shack guy then he needed a nudge for cooper and by the time he killed zeke it was second nature. I think kate might be with nat fillion/(firefly) int he future and i know for a fact they are gonna explain why kates not a fugative anymore. I have a feeling that sayid is the fourth one of the oceanic six... my question is who is gonna die in the next 7 episodes, it sucks with the writers srtike or else we would be looking at 15 straight episodes, i really hope that the add the missing 8 episodes to the two remaining seasons ans mkake them both 20 episode season instead of 2 16 episode seasons
That is a manifestation of Jack, not the man himself.
I don't think Walt would want to leave the island.
Here's a purgatory theory for you. What if the island is real life (albeit currently tainted by the outside via Dharma) and everything else is purgatory?
i dont think that a lot of people beside the six left the island that why hugo is so racked with guilt cause he knows "they need him still". I think it interesting that jack isn happy to be back at first and hugo is the first to want to go back but then he infect jack and jack gets all crazy and beardy, so i wonder if jack is gonna infect kate to want to go back??
no purgatory, if anything the second plane relates to the orchid video and the two 15 rabbits...
twinkle - That's exactly what I meant but you said it better. There could be 6 who used their true names and took the heat so to speak - but there's no way to number anyone who took an assumed identity - there could be 10 more or 1 more or no more.
Also, my bet on the casket is still Michael. But I have no idea who was in the cabin with Christian.
Since we don't know how much time elapsed between the Hurley flashforward and the last season's Jack flash, it's altogether possible one of the Oceanic 6 changed their name to avoid the publicity. That unwanted fame, coupled with a sense of guilt, would explain a suicide.
I don't think "they" gave anyone a new identity. If they wanted to hide someone, or were afraid they'd talk, I'm pretty sure that someone would be dead.
Lost 2010 said...
"See, there's a good point. I bet they gave Walt a new identity too - so that he could live out his childhood without the gleam of his O6 celebrity overshadowing ever day of his life. :)"
LMAO
i have a feeling thaty jack is the chief of surgery when he first comes back but as he gets more beardy and pill poppin he has a downfall like his dad that allows the guy from the show las vegas to become the new chief, and as far as the coffin one can not forget that jack was going to kill himself after he saw whoever was in there died. I almost have to think its locke or ben or else someone else would have been there, unless walt is still on the island, he would be at the funeral, but i guess there could be a case fo hurley being in the coffin and jack feeling gulity for not beleiving him about going back, but wouldnt kate have wanted to see hurleys funeral, plus his mom or dad would have been there
I don't buy the theory that more than 6 made it back to "the mainland." Why risk exposure of whatever it is Jack, Kate, and Hurley agreed to cover up?
And Lost 2010, I agree with you about Michael's being in the casket. I bet he will be one of the six.
i doubt its mike in the coffin unless walt is already dead or on the island, the way that hurley acts like picking locke over jack could have changed things makes it seem like it could be locke, but it also makes it like it could be hurley. Or even rose, maybe her cancer came back after she left, it would maie sense that she was saved along with jack and kate it just doesnt add up how hugo joins that group, and for that to be true bernard will have to die or stay behind
If Michael were going by an assumed name, to escape notoreity, very few people would recognize the name and attend the funeral — which Walt may not have attended because he and his father had become estranged over what happened (another motivation for suicide, perhaps?).
2costa said...
"no purgatory, if anything the second plane relates to the orchid video and the two 15 rabbits..."
- The Casimir Effect
- plus the writers of the shows ruled out the purgatory theory
Walk, Don't Run!!! New sneak peeks to next weeks episode are up on ABC.com
what didnt make sense to me is if ben didnt want the freighter called why did he let naomi escape with the phone???my besty thought on that is ben is playing the cards hes dealt and since they are coming either way he wants to create a plit in the group so that the frieghter people only save some of them, but as i said locke ida to go to the barracks could be a disaster, they could easily be locked in the barrackes perhaps thats the ones that dont get saved is all the barracks people with the exception of hurley...
I am not saying I agree, but you can't rule out it being Michael in the coffin just because Walt isn't there. Maybe Walt became an imancipated minor after realizing what his dad did to get him off the island, or maybe Mik had a downward spiral that leads Walt to leave and never want to see him again.
Who knows...
Besides, I don't think the casket was big enough for Hurley (no offense if you're reading this, dude).
Since we're talking about only six people escaping, I think they're going to be iconic characters who expressed strong desires to get off the island: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Michael (maybe counted as one person with Walt), then... I dunno. Maybe Sawyer, though I doubt it. Probably not Locke. Rose and Bernard are nice, but not mainstream enough to warrant two spots on "the list." Could be Claire (given Des's vision, and the fact she's got nothing to hang around for with Charlie gone). Could be Sayid, though he seems too ethical to keep whatever secret he'd be asked to keep.
:-) The world as purgatory, island as life was a joke and a nod to Chucklez.
Of course that's how our flash-forward Jack and Hurley seem to feel about being back.
At the barracks, they will be all in one place if someone wanted to capture them or drop a bomb on their heads or something.
End of episode 8 prediction - something bad happens at the barracks and the only ones we see get away are whichever ones end up being in the O6. So they leave the island not knowing for sure who survived. It would be a heck of a cliffhanger. As long as they don't give the island left-behinds any flashforwards at least.
Why would TPTB make the Oceanic 6 the people we think would most logically get off the island? Wouldn't they write it the opposite of that?
Oh wait, that contradicts my other theory. Hmmm, maybe some combination of the two - will have to work on that. . .
"Why hello Charlie, I didn't expect to see you here. What's that? You like to come visit all the people who have lost their minds watching this show. Well, that's nice of you Charlie. Sit down. Stay a while."
Great comments everyone!! So glad that we can watch the show all together like this.
I agree 2costa, jack didn't seem to ahve much outward showing of remorse, but then Hurley palnted the seed and the more he thought about it, the more it bugged him.
And thank you Locke! Finally, someone has the sense among the Losties to take over and live int he barracks! :o)
Right Erich, they'd be wearing cement shoes about now. :o)
BTW, there was so much emphasis on the killing in the re-cap show, that it almost seemed like a Sopranos ep. Must have seemed weird to new viewers.
Thinking of Jack's reaction at the coffin, and how he said he was neither family nor friend, and then crying over the casket, it's safe to say that Jack feels like he failed the person in the casket somehow. All Jack cares about is who he saves and who he doesn't, and it seems now he'll do anything to save who he thinks needs saving and in the way he thinks they needs saving.
Wow, Lost2010! I like that. It would bug Jack even more to not know who was still OK or not.
twinkle - I'm with you - gotta leave somebody on the island we all care about if you want us to root for them going back.
Good point Twinkle, now that he's lost one, he doesn't want the bodycount to rise anymore on his watch. Maybe he still kind of feels like their leader, and even wishes that he still was.
Erich,
I think you are forgettingthe fact that on the island you can see dead people walk and talk, even if Claire isn't special I believe that Aaron is and his connection to Charlie could possibly manifest a vision that both he and Claire could see, therefore she would be able, in a twisted sort of way, still be able to be with Charlie.
Just a little theory blocking... ol
I'm not saying the Oceanic 6 are the most obvious people, or the most popular — just the most willing to do whatever it takes to get off the island. It's gotta take some real determination to make a deal with the devil and leave people behind, just so you can escape. Michael made that deal with Ben; Jack ostensibly made that same deal with Ben ('til Locke came and blew up the sub). Can't think of examples of Kate and Hurley, necessarily, but I can see them both making bad decisions.
Alright - the combined theory -
We have broken into 2 groups, the Locks and the Keys. The Locks all go to the barracks. The Keys meet up with the parachute guy and he's willing to send the 815ers with Jack home. But he is going to do bad things (capture / kill / whatever) to the people at the barracks. Instead of taking his group on home - the Keys go to the barracks to warn the Locks. But the bad stuff happens while they are there.
We see the O6 (and any extra soon to be renamed and wit-secced folk) emerge from whatever - the armed guards, the fireball, the image of smokey stomping around after turning into the Stay Pufft Marshmallow Man (you get the idea).
Then Jack drags what's left of his orignal group to the waiting chopper - having lost some of his original followers but picked up some of the Locks (at least Hugo).
They for some reason can't go back right then for anyone else - thus they leave not knowing whether there were more survivors.
If there were, they'd definitely need help, no?
Ded, don't you think Claire would be more than a little freaked if ghost-Charlie popped up? It would take a serious break with sanity for her to treat his vision as if he were really there.
Not saying I'm convinced she got off the island, but Des did see her leaving on a helicopter. Of course, it's possible to leave the island (perhaps getting as far as the freighter), but not make it home.
What if they didn't have much say in who made it off? What if the ones who made it off where chosen by the rescuers or by lot? What if the deal they made was not because they wanted it but because something would happen to the others if they didn't?
My biggest Lagging question at the moment is what happend to the Others Large boat that we saw in the end of Stranger in a strange land. It was a decent size boat, by simple eye measurements (I used to work at a marina) it had to be at a minimum... 100 feet long or bigger. Where did that thing go and why isn't Jack looking for it. He went out to the boats with them so he must know it is there somewhere.
LOL! Lockes and Keys!
Interesting Lost2010. That also made me think that perhaps the ones to the first lift off the island are told that the rest will be loaded up when the chopper comes back on 2nd, 3rd, trips, etc. But for whatever reason (either intentionally or not) the chopper never goes back, and only one group gets off. Just my brain rambling.
Erich, I think you're right about the 6, but it's hard to figure out in my mind at least what would bring Jack to the point of being willing to save his own skin instead of the most lowly log carrier.
My guess is that Kate, even though she has reason not to leave because of her past will leave because she's pregnant. My further guess is that 6 of them will be isolated on the Island and have access to a boat or plane (remember Jack took flying lessons and the Others were building a runway) and they will use that opportunity to escape. Maybe they'll even try to go back at first, but can't figure out how to get there, and at that point they'll claim to be the only survivors as opposed to having to tell that they left people behind and have no idea how to tell you to find them.
It does seem as if Penny would be the key to getting back. Hopefully Charlie will tell Hurley to contact her.
Yes, they have two boats at least that we know about, right Ded? That one and Dez's?
Ok I think I've caught up on comments but you guys type too fast.:)
Who's in the coffin? My best guess is Michael at this point, just because of some of the things already said here. Of course the chances are 50/50 at this point. But Twinkle was right with that lostpedia link, TPTB have said it is a character we've already seen.
The whole Charlie thing is confusing. When he said he was dead but still there, my first thought was -oh Charlie's a vampire! Ok not so funny. It seems he would just be an illusion based on what Hurley saw in the police station and that no one saw Charlie on the convenience store video. But it doesn't explain why the guy at the hospital could see him... We were always talking about the Hieronymous Machine theory regarding certain things. Perhaps Charlie being there is a result of that. That the island has a hieronymous effect that it can use. eh..I don't know.
Oh and Good MOrning! Carol- good to see you over here! Welcome all newbies!
Capcom, you and I are thinking along the same lines. I'd think Jack would go last though. I can't see him pushing himself ahead of others.
Ded, I want to know where that boat and the Elizabeth are as well. Why wouldn't Jack want to try the 325 trick they learned at the Pala Ferry pier? As far as they know, it worked for Michael. (And speaking of maybe Michael and Walt did leave and took on new identities because of Michael's murders and he's in the coffin.)
New why Jack would leave first theory -- one of the 6 is sick and he's there as the doctor.
That's why I think Jack has to believe at the time that he has no choice but to leave. He thinks he's leaving to get help for the ones left behind maybe but he could be told later that if they reveal the rest aren't dead, the lie will be made so.
I agree Memphish, there has to be some reason for Jack getting on board a rescue vehicle in the first bunch to go, you would think.
All this "we have to go back" stuff makes me think of the Vietnam war and how former POWs wanted to go back and try to find the ones that didn't get away before it was over. :-(
I was thinking that the O6 were chosen by the whole group- and that it ends up being almost a Sophie's Choice kind of situation. And that like capcom said, maybe they were told that the rest would be rescued on subsequent trips but then they weren't. That would make the guilt worse I think for the 6.
memphish - I like that better. Strike mine - I'm going along with yours.
Memphish,
I agree about Jack. It would take some serious lapse of judgment for him to leave people behind. At the same time, he was willing to do it last season with the sub-deal. Dude wants to get off the island. The fact he tried to kill Locke last night suggests he's sick of people standing in his way, and if a group got serious enough about preventing anyone from leaving the island and tried to stop him again, he'd probably say "screw 'em" and leave. Jack may be valiant, but he's not a saint.
If he did give into temptation and leave people behind (maybe he decided he was sick of being in charge all the time...it wouldn't be the first time), that would give him the perfect motivation to go back.
There ya go Memphish! :-D
What if the Keys encounter all sorts of difficulties getting off the island? They run into Smokey. Jacob pulls his best. The island in general reacts to the freighter like your body does to a virus. More and more people die. The helicopter vision thing happens but the helicopter never makes it anywhere. Maybe all aboard die? Yikes!
Anyway, somewhere in this season or next another boat arrives and that's the one that rescues some. Maybe it's led by Matthew Abbadon. Sam's been pushing buttons and making people suspicious of the freckage so he needs some survivors who can corroborate the original freckage story (with the amendment about the 6). Six are chosen and sworn to the story or else.
I think I'm just not ready to underestimate TPTB and believe that the direction they are going is as obvious as it's easy to think (e.g. who gets off the island, how they get off, whether it's their idea or not, what they have to go through to get off).
Maybe it's as simple as it looks - only 6 Losties including Jack, Kate, and Hurley make a deal to get themselves off and leave on the freighter - but I kind of doubt it.
Wow, good to be reading all of you again. It is like my favorite author just published a new book!
Anyway, about half way through everyone's comments, so pretty much every idea i had was already discussed.
But as for the helicopter, I thought it strange that they would even be parachuting another person in. I mean, you already know that Naomi is badly injured, so sending one person will not help her; she needs to be evacuated out. Why not fly the helicopter around tracking the signal until you find a landing spot (by the radio tower seemed big enough) and then just land?
I think this shows that they know exactly what the island is and that they still cannot "approach" it. Something else has to be done for the freighter people to get to the island.
Naomi did not accomplish this goal, and the new parachute guy is there to finish the job.
The Sophie's Choice thing makes some sense. That could be why Jack and Kate are so adamant that they won't go back. Like Sayid's willingness to sacrifice himself at the beach, the rest have sacrificed themselves for the 6. And to that end I still think 1 of the 6 must be injured and that's why Jack is in the 6. I won't make guesses because I may be spoiled on who 1 of the 6 is.
I also think Kate has to have landed with some sort of alias. Even assuming she could get off for blowing up Wayne, I doubt Tom's wife will be likely to let her get away with being responsible for his death. Ditto the bank robbers she shot.
I don't think it would take as much for Jack to leave people behind as it would Kate and Hurley actually. He was about to leave Kate tied up on the pool table and Sayid tied to a swingset and get on the sub, remember?
Kate's the one that always wants to go back for everyone. And either Claire goes home or she's dead, because I don't see Hurley leaving her.
It's possible the Oceanic 6 are, in fact, rescued by the freighter. Just because their primary objective isn't to rescue anybody doesn't mean they wouldn't do it, especially in return for a favor or two -- the kind of favors you'd want to keep quiet about once you got home. After all, isn't that why Ben figured it was safe to let Michael go?
Ok, the rescue being led by Matthew Abbadon doesn't make sense but you still get my drift. Maybe we're thinking "inside the box" too much, and I don't mean Ben's box.
I agree Acewebguy. How is one man with a parachute going to "rescue" people?
Jack was only leaving on the sub so he could come back and rescue everyone, not go back to being a doctor, a doctor who drinks in the morning. So yes, while he has shown a willingness to leave, it was to effect rescue, not impede it.
twinkle - As long as we don't find out now that the O6 are a,b,c, Jack, Kate and Hurley and then have to spend 3 more seasons watching them whittle the cast down to 6, I can handle a little predictability I think.
What if Kate is pregnant? She would have gotten pregnant on the island. We know it'd be a miracle if the baby survives. Maybe being on the island in utero causes interesting changes. Anyway, "he" from the flash forward would be her young boy at home and the reason she's kept from the consequences of her crimes is that she and the boy are needed for research by whoever is trying to keep the island hush hush.
morning everybody good comments. Can't take credit for the "they need you thing". Saw it on the Fuselage lst night, but thought whoever saw it was clutch.
Any thoughts on the whispers from last night when Hurley was at Jacob's shack? It sounded like a man and woman having a conversation.
Is there any mundane reason why Faraday would think that the man walking toward him in the jungle was Jack? He'd (presumably) never seen Jack's face, and neither would have Minkowski. Jack told Minkowski over the phone that there were a large number of survivors to be rescued.
This seems like a tell, indicating that perhaps the freighter people are more insidious than Jack would like to believe.
The only way it could be explained is if Jack had the phone in his hand at the time. Does anyone remember?
Lost2010: Good point!
Boy DarkUFO's site is being overwhelmed like it's find815 or something. I'm still trying to track down those whispers. Anyone seen them yet?
How they made the "they need you" Easter Egg is on ABC's website as a video extra.
diggity: I'm waiting for someone to post the whispers so we can listen to them again. Will it be as simple as isolating the audio and reversing it like they did when Walt spoke in people's visions?
memphish - I don't trust Jack. I want to, but I don't. See, I'd have followed Locke to the barracks. Especially if Hugo and Claire did - they're the only ones I really trust. That's why it bothers me so much that Hugo says he shouldn't have done that. Because it means that I'm missing some piece of info that I needed to make an informed decision, because I was with Hugo.
All right, well I'm becoming obsessive again. Gotta clock out! I just really hope a bunch of non-obvious stuff is going to happen this season!
In combat situations, some para-guys will be dropped in, while the chopper could go look for a better or friendlier landing zone. So perhaps he was dropped as close to Naomi as possible (according to coordinates) to try to help her, and others set down at a better LZ. Just guessing.
Hurley is real close to falling into the same category as Charlie for me. Infuriatingly selfish and closed-off. Jack was there for a while, too, but since he whooped up on all the Others, I've given him a pass. I wouldn't trust Hurley any farther than I can throw him.
(well, with your back, Ed, you shouldn't be throwing anyone)
I agree with you all on Daniel F.'s arrival. There's something not right there at all. It makes no sense.
And, I wondered the same thing Kyle. I don't think Jack had the phone. I wonder if they have a connection with Sam Thomas and his manifest?
Twinkle, the whispers are over at Dark's Easter Egg site, but it's hard to get on his site right now. Traffic is really high. I heard them, but I can't distinguish anything clearly. We've already uncovered my bad hearing. I'm waiting for a transcript of sorts. It also sounds like there may be some backwards talk, but I could never get that audio to even load.
Dennis or David, have you got an alleviation post ready? We're up over 380 already.
i think that sayid is an ocvious choice for one of the six because shannon is dead and he wants to track down his iraqi girl. I have a feeling that hurley will somehow get seperated from the locke crew and be part of the jack crew and that could explain his remorse like everybody that went with locke gets trapped in the barracks and doesnt get saved except for hurley. I think jack saying tha the person in the coffin wasnt his freind or family is also in question, because as part of their deal with oceanic jack hurley and the rest have to act like they didnt mingle on the plane...
it could be rose that is in the coffin and she died of cancer after leaving the island, perhaps bernard died before that so he wasnt at the funeral. AS i said i think that the freighter people are their to clean up the hostiles and by knifeing naomi locke and everybody with him will be classifed as hostiles, which would explain why kate and jack are not, the one thing that has to happen for this to be true is hurley has to somehow be seperated from the rest ans in one of the season four clips it shows hurley in a water hatch, and they made a point to point that there are several ocean bottom hatches on he island
I keep thinking "Juliet" when I see the coffin. The only reasons being: Jack is upset at the death. Kate didn't like her much, and she said "why would I" about going to the funeral. Last, I was under the assumption that Juliet only had her sister and the future child (if in fact there was one)and sister was likely to die from cancer. Thus no one at the funeral.
Dude, no spoilers.
Morning all! WOW, so much to catch up and so many links to go to! Love everyone's inputs into who are and why does the Oceanic 6 happen. TPTB are probably gonna throw all of us for a loop in the long run, but for now it's fun to try and figure this out.
Well, Ben said that if the freighter people get on the island, all living people will die. Sort of another purge. So maybe, these 6 are the only ones left. Also, I like the talk that the hostile who make it off or strike the deal with the freighter guys would not be counted for the outside world as being an Oceanic survivor celebrity. That opens the door for Juliet and others to leave. Also, Sawyer could very well be using an alias and continuing his conning ways. What troubles me is that, so far, we've seen 1/2 of the O6: Jack and Hurley definitely are handling this lie-keeping badly, Kate seems to have to terms with her decision (is that because she's led a life on the run, and has lied along the way so she's used to it?). We're probably going to see the FF of the other half in the coming weeks. It will be interesting to see how they're coping with this lie.
Now what is the lie? BIG question. This may be the cover-up of all cover-ups. Is it a lie to keep any other people away from the island? In exchange for rescue there must be no further mention of the island. Maybe saying they were found at sea? They have to lie about where they were found, lie about there being other people left behind (whether left behind willingly or left behind having been killed). Are they covering for Oceanic or someone more sinister who's behind why the freighter people are there?
It makes good sense that Michael would be in the coffin. He could have taken on an alias, too, in exchange for possibly helping the freighter people. He did have a teenage son. His funeral was in a black neighborhood. The O6 were holding a grudge against Michael for what he did to get Walt back, and possibly aiding and abetting the people that are getting them to live this lie. Why, indeed, would Kate go to his funeral?
It was so interesting to find Christian Shepherd in the cabin. Has Jacob just taken on that persona? Is he the Bad Twin? Using the eye closeup in the middle of the show instead of the opening was an interesting way to include that image. My first thoughts were Patchy, Desmond, Jacob (as the twin). I don't think any of the screen caps can be definitive of who it is...yet.
As to Charlie being in Hurley's head: I think Hurley also imagined the other patient who mentioned someone is staring at you. Hurley's been seeing Charlie everywhere...at 7/11, the interrogation room. I think it's Hurley's guilt just eating at him. He's finding it difficult to live with this lie. He was grateful to go back to Santa Rosa, but it won't let him rest.
That's it for now...off to check out Oceanic Conspiracies and read links given above.
Welcome to all joining TLC in comments (either from Dennis' blog, or the OC and elsewhere). Value your inputs.
julliet could be off the island but not an oceanic six because noone knows she misssing and she wasnt on the flight. but i think that ben or the freighter people will keep her on the island cause she too valuable with her knowledge of the fetility problem as i stated the frieghter people seem intersted in the whole fertility thing, plus wouldnt jack be with julliette in the future considering kate is taken. plus lately they have showed the clips of what else did julliette twell them about the island and she definetly hasnt told jack everything...
You know Costa, you have SO MANY really excellent ideas and often call things way before we figure them out, but I always have to skip/skim your post because of the spoilers. Like that last one...before I knew what was happening BLAMMO I was spoiled :(.
i havent read a spoiler in ages, im only going on the clips for next week
watch em ange on abc.com, i have no prior knowledge i promise ange. I think sayid would want to get off the island still, but he would have to seperate himeself from locke and the rest as well, i though it was interesting that locke didnt say anything about the subamrine which might also exoplain the oceanic 6, i cant see the freighter people letting anyone leave so maybe oceanic will be forced to deal with the oceanic 6 if they escape on the sub that locke only pretended to destroy...
I saw the words "spoiler" and "next week," and I stopped reading. 2costa, without repeating the information you posted above, are you sourcing your comments from the post-episode promo, or from other official preview content?
is that a fact that it was cristain shepard eyes cause hurley has never seen christain so for him to be in the shack would be crazy. Hurley is like this messianic figure to the island so it would make sense that whoever is trying to exploit the island doesnt want him on there, he obviously has the same gift as locke and walt, which may be the basis for who they let go as well, but i can see locke leaving voluntarily, but he fits the la thing but MIke is from ny...
just the promo from next week on abc.com but i dont know which that is kyle
the hurley thing in an underwater hatch might have been the clip of him in the police station...
probably previev content its a 2 minute scene from next week, i thought it was cannon, cause on abc. com but i put spoile to be nice. Is it officially ok to talk about the orchid now as well im just out of the loop on here???
Oceanic Six:
Jack
Kate
Hurley
Sayid?
Sun?
Jin?
Perhaps the Island/Jacob let these six leave knowing if they stay they would die. Perhaps the Island/Jacob knew that they had something to learn. In the flashforward it seems that the island is calling them back. Maybe Hurley was the most suggestable so he was first. Then he tells Jack then Jack starts to see things, then Jack tells Kate and she does too. So on and so forth. Maybe they all need to feel the Islands calling and get on a plane together using their golden ticket so the Island can bring them back.
Well, here's the thing. If the info comes from the "next week on LOST" preview that airs on ABC TV right after the episode broadcast, then it's not a spoiler.
But if it comes from other sneak-preview or preview stuff on ABC.com, it is a spoiler.
The rules on spoilers are here. Give 'em a look, and determine for yourself if what you posted was a spoiler.
I assume you watched the episode, so you'd know what was aired in the TV preview?
interesting though that charlie swan up to the glass just like he did to desmond in hurley vision even though hurley never witnessed that, his visions of the shack make me think that chalrie is really projecting to hurley and its more than mere guilt, becase after all room 23 tells us that only fools are trapped in time in space, i always thought charlie was in the swan when the sh''t hit the fan maybe charlie has a small window to visit the future while dsmond visited the past...
i never clicked on anything kyle it just started playing when i clicked on abc.com so its prolly not a spoiler i reckon
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