You better believe that The Lost Community is going to throw down 400 comments in under 24 hours after an episode like that! This is a courtesy post meant to alleviate some of the lag loading the comments page. Make sure you read the the comments on the last thread to see all the latest thoughts and revelations brought on by last night's episode.
Oh, and please don't forget to visit THROWMYWEDDING.COM and use all your votes to help my friends win a free wedding from a local TV station!
Thursday, March 22, 2007
THE MAN FROM TALLAHASSEE - SEASON 3, EPISODE 13 (POST 2)
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Here is the updated reading list for the 
175 comments:
Admin, don't forget to post new thread at the bottom of the old one. How many times can we vote for your friends?
Erich, I do think Widmore and Paik are somehow involved with the Island but I think that they are DI/Hanso linked rather than being connected to Jacob, Ben, the Hostiles and Locke and the true "religion" of the island. I think Penny will be able to use her Widmore connections to help find the Island though.
Erich, good pick up on Charlie and his guitar. That was a total Locke/Charlie/Island moment. I think that was the box. Charlie was one of the people who've been called special.
Good catch, luckyguy! Definitely adds credence to Cooper=Original Sawyer theories. Maybe Cooper/Sawyer actually taught some con techniques to James Ford!
Thanks for new thread, Admin!
GO BRUINS!
I went an posted in the old thread before I was halfway done reading it only to find out that there is anew thread.
Anyway, this is what I said:
hieronymous - When I hear that name I think of an artist Heironymous Bosch that did a painting of the 7 deadly sins. I did a paper on it when I was in college.
It reminded me on an eye. It was round with 7 pie shaped images around it depciting the sinse. Another image was in the middle (the pupil of the 'eye') - I think it was an image of Jesus, but I don't remeber it that clearly.
I found a link to it on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Deadly_Sins_and_the_Four_Last_Things
Thanks for that link, Lostit. Very interesting painting.
BRUINS ADVANCE!
I had an off the wall thought.
What if John Locke has actually been in a coma all this time after being pushed out the window and everything is happeining in his mind? No-one can leave the island because John IS the island and to leave is to cease to exist.
Even more off the wall - What if they're all in a shared comatose experience? Sun could have fallen with what's his name. Jin could have had an "accident" at work. Charlie could have overdosed, etc.
Joss,
Please be careful with spoilers. Even if you did block out the name it is info from the next epi that some of us don't want to know.
I believe that the Oil Painting on Ben's wall is of Karen DeGroot. If you compare the painting to the only photo of her (see Lostpedia) they look very similar. What if the Degroots were Ben's parents. The other photograph in his home of the Island thatched roof house make me think that they are showing us a bit of history of the island. That it appeared to be a bit of Shangri La (Shambala if you will).
My vote is that Ben is the child of the Degroots...grown up to keep their dream alive, never wanting to leave the island, wanting others to commit to the Islands special attributes.
lady lost,
Interesting theory about the DeGroots. I checked out the Timeline that Maven put together. I'm not sure that the DeGroots were on the island long enough for Ben to have been born there. Also, we've heard from one of the DeGroot's grandsons on a DJ Dan Podcast. Here's what it said:
1960's: Karen DeGroot gets her Doctorate in Psychology from the University of Michigan. (Per her "grandson" during DJ Dan podcast on July 5, 2006).
Early 1970's: Karen DeGroot leaves Michigan to go to some island in the South Pacific -- "the flame". (Per her "grandson" on DJ Dan podcast of July 5, 2006.)
P.S. Maven, that Timeline is soooo awesome!
memphish...
Sorry about forgetting to post "new thread". You can vote once for every email address you have. Thanks a million for helping!
Lady Lost, that's a nice idea, but how do you explain the age issues with Ben looking 40+ (per x-ray reading Dr. Jack and our own eyes) and the DeGroots not coming to the Island until the mid-70s or even 80s?
Karen is certainly the only person we've seen other than Juliet who even vaguely resembles that picture. I wonder if Juliet was chosen by Ben for her "striking resemblance" to this woman as well as the male mouse thing.
Anyone else now think that the gay character on the Island is Richard "Yes, I Am Wearing Eyeliner" Alpert?
GO Tigers Go!
Go Bruins!
(As for the magic box, the 2 teams I was totally committed to last night won, and my ambivilence towards the Vols did them in at the last second. Today I'm placing UNC in the box.)
Morning.
Admin, this "courtesy thread" is fantastic. We should do it more often!
There are promo photos for TMFT on ABC.com and the 15th one shows a dog, not Vincent, in Othersville.
WooHoo! Go Bruins, Go Bruins!
Get ready for some Kansas smack-down people!
I saw an interesting idea about the box and Locke's Dad or as the anagram would indicate "Sawyer, the con man, a poor dad." Mabye it wasn't Locke and his wishes that made him come out of the box, but James "Sawyer" Ford's wishes. Ben says to Locke the reason Locke wants to stay on the Island is because Dad can't get there, but that turns out to be wrong. Of course, Locke has this perverse, I don't want, I do want to be around my father thing, so he could have conjured him up too.
J. Wood in his post indicated that this was Anthony Cooper's 3rd betrayal of Locke. This reminds me of Peter's 3 denials of Christ. So will Locke and Daddy reconcile as Jesus and Peter did? There certainly has been no sign of redeeming qualities or desires in AC at all.
We've had 3 people now that shouldn't be able to walk -- Sarah, Locke and now Ben (maybe). So far 2 have been healed -- one by Jack, one by the Island, will the 3rd be healed? By Jack, by the Island by something else?
I'm just going to keep musing over here until someone shows up or the guilt over what I should really be doing builds to the point where I actually go do it.
Has anyone gone back to look at the Blast Door Map in an attempt to locate the Magic Box? Puzzlers -- do the back of the jigsaw puzzles say anything about such a location?
My new favorite magic box theory:
muckraker16 wrote:
Maybe there was a hallucigent in the chicken and Locke's "dad" isn't there at all. He's just in Locke's head, and he "sees" his dad because Ben planted that suggestion.
There's an article about Lost and Locke in the L.A. Times. There is a spoiler in it on the second page in the paragraph starting "Now that Locke has blown up the submarine . . ."
Good morning!!
Admin, I voted for Jeff & Ashley (cute couple)
memphish said...
There are promo photos for TMFT on ABC.com and the 15th one shows a dog, not Vincent, in Othersville.
Well, that explains why Vincent is gone so much:) Vincent holds the key to how you get in and out of otherville without hemoraging your brain!
memphish, I want to read that LA Times article, but not sure if I want to sign up to be a registered user..
And speaking of spoilerish, the preview they showed immediately after TMFT sure was totally spoiler!!
Codysmom, I didn't sign up and could read it. Here's a link to page 2 of the article. Try that.
CodysMom,
Try BugMeNot.com for a LA Times password (works for most other sites too).
I used bugmenot@dodgeit.com / bugmenot to log in.
Thanks, memphish and dennis. The page 2 link worked!
What if the reason Desmond crashed on the Island wasn't some Widmore conspiracy, but Kelvin wishing for a replacement?
Enjoyed the article. I have to say that I don't really understand what they are saying in reference to Claire. There may be more there than I was thinking...
I'm not so sure I believe in this "wish box" stuff. I think the Others are making their own luck with the help of something that is giving them a lot of info that is necessary for their con. The "mysteries of the island" seem to not work for Ben - he's in a wheelchair and Locke's not!
Hey, Admin, thanks for the shoutout re the Timeline. Good to see it's still being put to good use. Newcomers to TLC should check it out. It was put together last summer during The Lost Experience ARG.
This magical box/wish thing could go so many different ways, couldn't it? I don't think that Cooper is a manifestation of Smokey this time. He is physically there. Richard Alpert questioned Ben when he was asked to go get TMFT. The question is how long he has been held by the Others. Locke is so important to Ben now, that, apparently, they've gone to extreme measures to abduct Locke's father in a plan to find out why Locke seems so in tune with the island.
sorry!
"Ever since the sky turned purple . . ." That phrase has come up over and over again this season. Usually we are told that ever since the sky turns purple some aspect of Dharma/the Hostiles operation isn't working properly.
Ben said back in Season 2 that "even God couldn't see the Island." What if part of the operations was a cloaking device and that isn't working now? The guys in the arctic station were able to detect the island we suspect because of the sky turning purple. What if Ben and everyone else is lying when they say now you can't get back and in fact the exact opposite is true, now anyone can find the island because this cloaking thing no longer works? That could be the real reason Ben doesn't want Jack to leave because he knows Jack would return with a rescue party. Ben doesn't really have to worry about Michael returning because of Michael killing Ana Lucia and Libby. That will keep him away.
erich was talking about all the money needed to fund the Others. If we are to believe Patchy, then the Others purged Dharma. I still stick by my idea that the Others were continuing the Swan and Flame hatches to make Dharma on the mainland think that everything was still operating as usual. Now that they are blown up, they may be in fix about food drops and other niceties they have gotten used to.
Alpert is obviously an Other and not Dharma. He is a recruiter. Maybe he recruits people and also money now. I'm wondering if Cooper is working for them on the money side of things. He cons people for money and the Others give him a place to hide from the legal ramifications of what he did to Locke and all his other victims.
Here is another article that was in the LA Times this morning re the show and Locke. Thanks, Memphish, for the link to the other LA Times story. Gosh, they're really covering the show!
Codysmom: I also agree that Alpert is one of Ben's main recruiter in the outside world (he seemed to get to the island, didn't he?). I bet Mittelos Bioscience is all a big con, too. It's just a setup to get "qualified" people or people Ben needs to come to the island. And the money question is a good one. It takes a lot of money to set up these elaborate cons. It would be an interesting twist if Cooper was involved in the long con and is working for Ben/the Others to fund them. Remember, the Hanso Foundation ceased funding Dharma, Widmore and Paik Industries were probably only involved in constructing the hatches, etc. We know from TLE that the food drops were supposed to go on in perpetuity. But who is really funding it now?
Maven, thanks for the link to the timeline. I'm going to look at it now.
Memphish
Just dropped in today, love your avi.
Gonna go catch up on the posts.
Hi, everyone.
A question that's been bugging me:
If Otherville is landlocked and completely surrounded by the pylons of the sonic fence, how is it that the sub was docked there?
lostitsaid:
Even more off the wall - What if they're all in a shared comatose experience? Sun could have fallen with what's his name. Jin could have had an "accident" at work. Charlie could have overdosed, etc.
Hey that's not to off the wall. I don't know how old you are but back in 1999 there was a tv show called Harsh Realm. Harsh Realm was the code name of a military computer simulation, a virtual reality world. A military officer was asked to test it. Once he was inside the game he couldn't deterimine what was real and what wasn't.
You think (or at least I did) that he's the only "real" person in this world then in one episode the camera falls back from a close up on him he's lying on a table hooked to this machine and you see an entire bunker of people hooked up to the virtual world.
I really liked but I must have been one of the very few cause it didn't last very long.
But every once in awhile Lost reminds me of this show.
Just dropped in today,
trying to catch up on the posts.
something funny i thought of while thinking of this locke episode. . .
Al Gore will be Jacob! I say this in jest but does anyone remember the 2000 presidential elections? Al Gore's famous line was lock box. SNL's parody of him always had him saying it.
I think we should now use LockeBox when speaking of the box and this episode.
Hopefully my wife and i will rent season one and two of Lost this weekend to get her caught up to the Lost story. which episodes do you think i should hook her in with first?
blueheron13 said... If Otherville is landlocked and completely surrounded by the pylons of the sonic fence, how is it that the sub was docked there?
The sub must be docked outside the pylons. We don't know how long the hike from the barracks to the sub was.
Which means that Alex must have shown him a safe way out of the barracks, maybe though one of the subterranean passages...
Then Jack may know about the passages as well.
Erich said...
Codysmom: The producers pretty much came out and said in their latest podcast that The Others didn't know about the Swan before the Losties arrival, so I don't think they've been trying to "keep up appearances" with any Dharma folks off-island. I also found it interesting that they suggested the "purge" of Dharma by The Others may have been provoked by Dharma actions in the first place.
Of course, you could be right about this. I'm thinking that the Others knew about the Swan Hatch, but just didn't know how to find it until the crash survivors blew the hatch door. I think they had been viewing it from the Pearl's cameras for a long time. If this is true, maybe Kelvin was the last real Dharma guy.
Hi All,
I haven't caught up in the reading yet, I have the nephews today, but I just have to say quickly....
....EEK! You made my Wizard of Otherville avatar Memphis!!! Awesome!! :o)
dennis said... Which means that Alex must have shown him a safe way out of the barracks, maybe though one of the subterranean passages...
Gotta like that Alex.
Oh, and if anyone is interested in buying a piece of the Lost plane, check this out:
Lost Plane
I would like to think that The Box has something to do with an apparatus created to enhance, or be a catalyst for, the remote viewing research. I've read a couple books about it, and there was no kind of "object" that anyone used for that purpose back when it started (except for one kooky woman who used tarot cards for her attempts), but the DI could have possibly tried different things to enhance the RV subjects' viewing skills. Anway, then after they created The Box, "It" was capable of doing a lot more things besides aiding remote viewing (or maybe their research itself even crafted The Box to eventually do more). For instance, not just creating visions of remote places and objects in your head, but physical visual and touchable apparitions as well. Just thinkin'.
Sayidsgirl, I liked Harsh Realm too! It was on around the same time as Millenium (and close to The Lone Gunman series), and I think that Chris Carter's people just started to spread themselves a little thin. Especially with the X-Files being on also at the same time. Although, the plot was a bit twisty and weird for the average TV viewer consumption, so that's probably why it didin't get much viewership and got dropped. I think that Terry O'Q was in that one too! As well as the Files and Millenium!
I am SO glad to hear that TPTB told us that Otherville didn't know about The Swan! That really eliminates a LOT of intertwined questions, for sure.
Maybe there will be no more food drops since either TPS (the purple sky) happened, or since the Flame blew up. Or else, I hope that the watermelon and other produce in Ben's fridge came from the Otherville victory garden!
Do we think that Mr.Eyeliner brought Cooper to the island? He could be a sort of Other version of a bounty hunter. They send him out to bring back the people that they want....and he better not come back without them. And that's good Codysmom, he is probably their recruiter/PR/salesman all in one.
That's a great thought Memphish that Ben is lying about not being able to get back to the island BEFORE the Swan blew, and that they really can. He's not reeeeeeally lying, because that's what the situation was before....it's not his fault that the magnet suppressor blew up, so he's still sort of telling the truth. You know, in terms of still looking good to his people. THAT could be why he smirked when the sky turned purple (if we can indeed take that at face value).
Thanks for the links everyone, good stuff!
Fenris, what do you say about this ep?
I havn't had a chance to really catch up with all the comments but just wanted to throw this out there.
Spaculation into Anthony Cooper being the Real Sawyer have been put out there by many and I agree.
erich said:
"Anyone else think the financier of The Others (though not necessarily Jacob) is Mr. Widmore?"
What if... Anthony Cooper was trying to con an unknown Mrs. Widmore and in doing so got onto the board over at Widmore Corp.
Now in doing this he gains knowledge of the Island and its mysterious properties. SO he sets out to go there and arives only to be taken by the others.
OR
What if this is waht Anthony Cooper does? What if he is in bed with all of them. Hanso, Widmore, and Dharma in general and the reason that he cons old woman out of their fortunes is to fund the now defunt but still running Island initiatve.
Either of these would help me to understand just what he is doing there.
Hmmmmmmm, good stuff Ded! If the DI (unknown to kindly Mr.Hanso, of course) is stealing money from little old millionaire ladies, they really are the bad guys.
I'll speculate that Anthony Cooper crashed on the island during the "system failure" time that immediately preceded Desmond turning the failsafe key.
We've wondered before if that event would cause another plane or boat or balloon to crash. Maybe it did?
Thanks for the avatar love. I'm not very good at that sort of thing, so don't look at it too closely.
I don't think that TPTB said the Hostiles didn't know anything about the Swan in the Official Podcast, but just that they didn't really understand what was going on in it, especially the button pushing. Possibly they, like Locke, thought it was a mere psychological experiment as the Pearl video indicated. They were content to let the Swan Hatch monkey push the buttons just like the smart Hydra polar bears.
Anyone have any ideas as to why Locke was wet?
Robert, here's my idea. I think he scuttled the sub before blowing it up. That's why he went into it, to press submerge as Ben suggested. Then he set a slow fuse, climbed out, got wet, got back on the dock and was heading back into the jungle. I wonder where he would have gone had he not run into Jack, Juliet, and the security crew?
memphish... I kinda like the idea that Locke moved the sub and blew up the dock instead, but for someone who doesn't want to leave the island, that is very un-Lockelike.
BTW, "Downtown" is playing on our company muzak and personally, I can't stand that song. And now we have to hear it daily because of that stupid commercial.
OMG, I can't get that song out of my head now :)
ib4uc that commercial with Downtown in it came on during basketball last night, and I laughed disturbingly.
As for Locke, keeping the submarine would be cheating, so I think he at least attempted to destroy it. Judging from the preview, I'm not sure he was completely successful.
memphish... yeah, I think he blew up the sub also. But wouldn't it be cool if he didn't, and him wanting to stay on the island was all an act to fool Ben? Talk about sockin' it to him (Ben that is).
I need to check out that preview again.
luckyguy... thanks for the heads-up on the preview. I saw it once but that was at 11:00 Wednesday and haven't seen it again. Off to check and see if it's on DarkUFO...
Dennis said... I'm starting to think that Ben is the magnificant man, and there is no Jacob. Everyone goes through Ben, and only Ben talks to Jacob.
LuckyGuyLikeMe said... Did you listen to this week's Official Podcast Dennis? Because if I understood them correctly, what they said contradicts this.
See Below... I don't think they quite contradicted this...they were a little weasely.
I think it is like the Wizard of Oz. Ben is not Jacob, because there is no Jacob. Ben is the man behind the curtain. Everyone believes there is a Jacob, but no one has ever seen him...only Ben.
BTW, For anyone that hasn't listened to the Official Lost podcast because of spoilers, I have cut out the three most interesting questions, and removed any spoilers.
Is Ben "him"? Is Jacob "him? Is Ben Jacob?
Is Mikhail telling the truth about "The Purge"
Did the Others know about the swan station?
LOL Memphish, your new avatar is hysterical! I wish I could do things like that...
Lockebox Island. Come for the Social Security, stay for the ...well, because you can't leave!
I found this comment over at Things I Noticed, by Vozzek69 over at DarkUFO:
Locke inadvertently manifested his dad. The point is that upon stumbling across "The Man from Tallahassee", Ben immediately knew who was responsible for him. This made Locke a very important commodity to Ben, which may be why he came looking for him in season two. Which would make Cooper cooped up for a pretty long while.
So, maybe Ben was telling the truth in season 2, and he did come looking for Locke - for the same reason they wanted Walt.
Dennis, you da man. I don't know how to take what they say about the Others and the Swan though. The Others know about the Pearl and can see the Oceanic survivors in the Pearl once they arrived, but they never bothered to check out the Pearl before then?
Ben also got the numbers right away when Locke told him. This just makes him Rain Man I guess.
I'm pretty sure that Jacob is Ben's dad. The problem is I don't know if he's alive or dead or where he is and how he makes lists. I guess it isn't just Ben pretending to be Jacob because then Shephard would be on Jacob's list, right?
LGLM, Thanks for the photo. That was me spreading that dis-information. Guess I was blocking the existence of a certain Lostie from my mind. I didn't go frame by frame. I must be slipping. LOL.
And now stepping into the box...
Dennis, I love the idea of the manifestation of what you want to be there.Kind of like I think, therefore you is.
Go Gators (Daughter's alma mater)
Okay so catching up and writting comments as I catch up.
1. If Lockes "dad" is the real Sawyer, who's to say it wasn't Sawyer that conjured him up? If he is Sawyer then do the Others know that? If so it could be what that "respect of a con man" thing was about and if not then it could be a key bit of info because Ben is basing a lot of his assumptions on the fact it was Locke that conjured him up.
2. Actually I still don't buy that anyone conjured anything up. There is a fundemental problem with assuming the "smoke" is the metaphorical "box". Because there is also the question of what is Cerberus. It appears that Dharma created Cerberus, so that makes it likely that the three things cannot be the same. Also I don't buy that the producers of Lost would let it be a knock off of a startrek episode. I think people are reading too much into Bens words. He is often taking note of how things are just dropped in his lap to make things work. But that's not the same as conjuring it up by wishing for it. If that was the case then Jack himself was conjured up by the island. I think the co-incidences are tied with some kind of scientific theory about synchronicity which could also tie into collective memory and perhaps the whole Valencetti thing.
3. This wasn't really from reading the comments but a general thing I have thought for a while. What if the island is just like the ship allegedly involved in the Philadelphia experiment. That ship was supposed to both go invisible and teleport. That would make the island pretty hard to track. That would also explain why the stars could move in two shots in the pilot if that is indeed the case.
4. I have said all along I reckoned the food drops came from some kind of warehouse within the island. I have trouble buying that somewhere outside the island is a Dharma boat, apparently unaware that Dharma has shut down/been taken over by the others and is standing buy to quickly fly over drops at the press of a button, while some big factory in a nearby contry continues to brand generic food with Dharma logo's for the sake of these drops.
5. I think we should give a weekly prize to whomever is first to mention the smoke monster every week and try and tie it to someone or something in the episode. :)
6. We have to be careful of talking about Dharma and Hanso too much. Part of the reason for them doing the ARG was to cover stuff they didn't want to cover in the series, so while we are all no doubt hoping it ties in there somewhere it is unlikely to tie in everywhere and to everything going on this season. As such I still think it's worth remembering the potential excavation work going on offshore of the island near the Hydra camp. It does appear there was something special about the island before Dharma got there after all.
7. I can imagine a big group of Dharma mercenaries landing on the island along with Penny and perhaps Micheal as well. Probably in the last episode.
8. I noticed Daniel disapeared before Ben turned up. I wonder if that is because when she finally see's him, she will recognise him?
9. I agree with Maven. Ben wants to know what Lockes connection with the island is just as he wanted to know about Walt.
10. The dirt road - I think this was due to lead to the Barracks. Perhaps the guy on his beer run was poisoned or something by the Others when he went to get beer from the Barracks.
11. If Ben is summoning people via the the power of the island/"box" to the island then it is still a star trek episode, just not an origional series one. That idea was used in Next Generation I believe. Okay maybe it's a case like the "The Simpsons Did It" episode of Southpark in that it's just to hard to avoid doing stuff done by Startrek, but I still don't think that the producers would lead things in that direction. It's just lazy.
Okay I'm drained so stopping reading the old comments and I'll post this now and read the new comments later tonight.
I like the idea that Ben is the Man Behind The Curtain, ie, Jacob.
I don't believe there is a box. If Ben & Company have mastered time travel, they would always be one step ahead of the losties.
Re Daddies: There are no daddies because of...parthenogenesis!
And finally, the last of my goofy ideas-a prediction: Uncle Tommy will help the losties escape and will go with them (Jack).
Hey, Fenris. We always eagerly await your comments!
I really feel that Locke is going to become more and more important and central to the story of Lost. He has been in tune with the island since Day one, while everyone else has fought the island. Ben knew this from the beginning, and he has manipulated the long con to have Locke divulge his sense of the island, something that seems to have alluded him his whole life. Maybe he even invented Jacob in order to con the Others into doing what Ben wants and to keep them on the island.
memphish said...I don't know how to take what they say about the Others and the Swan though. The Others know about the Pearl and can see the Oceanic survivors in the Pearl once they arrived, but they never bothered to check out the Pearl before then?
I think they are saying that the Hostiles didn't know there was a Swan Station until the Losties arrived and opened the hatch.
The Hostiles may have seen it on a Dharma map, but never found it (it was hidden pretty good), but more likely they never bothered to go to that part of the island to look for it for no reason(2+ day walk). They have important Hostile research to do. Oh, and there's pinball.
Random thoughts about the Lostpedia Timeline inspired by the Swan Station question:
Day 52 - Michael leaves to look for Walt, and is captured by the Hostiles.
Day 54 - Ms. Klugh asks Michael questions about Walt.
No reason to let Michael go at this point.
Day 58 - Rousseau captures Ben, Sayid takes him to the Swan
Day 61 - Lockdown! Ben types the numbers into the computer.
The hostiles have Michael and Walt, but now Ben has gone missing. Does Ben text message for help on the Swan computer? It looks like they'll have to use Michael to get Ben.
Day 63 - Jack and Kate find Michael.
Day 64 - Michael frees Henry Gale.
Day 65 - Locke and Eco discover the Pearl station.
It appears that someone was in the Pearl station. Maybe when Ben went missing, they sent Mikhail to the Pearl to find him.
The Flame with Mikhail and Bea was full of Dharma manuals. There was no mention of the Swan in all the Dharma manuals I guess since TPTB seem to say The Swan is a need to know project. But again this doesn't jive with the Pearl video and the fact there was a smoking cigarette in the Pearl when Locke and Eko arrived. The Others had to know about the Pearl and it's alternate entrance. Plus there are the maps in the Flame. I can buy that the Others didn't know the real purpose of the Swan nor I'd guess do they understand the incident, but I cannot buy that they don't know about the Swan. Isn't their Swan labeled food in Othersville?
Fenris, I agree there could be a warehouse on Island that launches the food drops. AH said in the Sri Lanka video the food drops would occur in perpetuity. There has to be some don't ask, don't tell policy for them. Maybe that's why they have the lockdown in the Swan, so little minions can place the parachuted pallets maintaining the illusion of coming and going from the Island.
The timeline is great Maven. It reminds me that Ben as awesome as he is is not infallible. The original steal a kid off a raft project involved the probable death of Michael and Sawyer both who they later decided they needed.
Maybe the reason Ben went looking for Locke was something Walt said. Ben says to Walt, "How did you learn to throw a knife perfectly into a target?" Walt answers, "Mr. Locke taught me. He taught me lots of things," or some such conversation. This piques Ben's curiosity about Locke and he comes looking for him. I still don't understand the part about Ben getting caught in a net though.
Memphish/Fenris: I still think there really are food drops coming from off the island set up in perpetuity by Hanso way back when. The company preparing, labeling and delivering the drops could care less what they're about...they just keep getting paid. (The company could be Paik or Widmore.)
And...thanks Memphish re the Timeline. It was really fun to put it together this summer during TLE.
experimentalfilm
memphish was talking about the two names Locke's dad used Anthony Cooper and Adam Seward making the anagram Sawyer, the con man, a poor dad.
Hi y'all! Just checking in for the latest scoops & theories. Don't know what I would do without you guys!
Let's not forget that Claire craved peanut butter, and then they found the food in the hatch (and later some fell from the sky!)
But I agree with Fenris that this wishing-makes-it-so thing is too easy an explanation. Oh well, it really would explain a lot!
Might even explain why Libby was so into Hurley...ok, I take that back, that was not a nice thing to say.
Just a small point about the sonic fence and the sub:
the sub could come and go under the fence. The other boats met the sub at Pala Ferry, and the sub would go under the island and come up in a small pool, inside New Otherton (what CC and DL call Otherville). So the town could be landlocked, and still be sub accessible, and the fence can still surround the entire barracks area.
maybe?
Hey, dennis, thanks for the link to lostpedia's timeline. It's great! I'd like to add to your random thoughts (because of the Swan station question):
Day 58 - "One of Them"
"Rousseau captures Ben, Sayid takes him to the Swan"
Day 61 - "The Whole Truth"
Henry is let out to eat cereal.
This may be the first time the Other stationed at the Pearl could actually see Ben.
Day 62 - "Three Minutes"
Ms. Klugh tells Michael that if he completes a mission he can have Walt and they can go free. The mission is to free the prisoner in the Swan and bring Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer back to the Others' camp. Michael agrees but says he also wants the boat.
One day after Ben is let out of the armory to eat cereal, Ms. Klugh sets a plan in action to free Ben. Her plan is such that the Others don't necessarily know where the Swan is located. It only involves Michael (who obviously knows where it is) going back to his "friends" to complete his mission.
Assuming it was Mikhail in the Pearl watching and telling Ms. Klugh that he found Ben, maybe those two worked out the plan for Michael to get him out. Since Libby died (or maybe since Ana Lucia and Libby died-just the fact that there were deaths involved) Mikhail and Ms. Klugh may have gotten in big trouble with Ben (or Jacob). Maybe they were banished to the Flame station as a punishment. When Locke, Sayid, & Kate showed up at the Flame and captured them, they failed a mission again. This might explain their suicide pact. Ben himself said Jacob is a magnificent man, but not a forgiving man. I'm still wondering what Mikhail meant by "there is another way", though.
I've heard that they may make a Lost movie after the series ends. Wouldn't it be fun to have it show the series from The Others' perspective?
amused2bhere, I'll buy that!!
Wow, it's really late (EDT)..
be back tomorrow!!!!
Good Morning LoCos
amused2behere
That makes perfect since to me about the sub.
friday's_child
Like your avitar not sure what it is but it looks familiar.
This is going to take for ever to post the wv has disappeared.
This is getting crazy so far seven tries and the wv keeps coming and going.
Lurking as usual...wanted to ask something of the community...
amused2behere said...
Might even explain why Libby was so into Hurley...ok, I take that back, that was not a nice thing to say.
Who thinks Libby was really into Hurley? I have always been convinced that she was faking affection for him from the start. This picture is what really convinced me. Libby looked totally put out after their big kiss on the cliff. Cast your votes! Was Libby Conning or Cuddling with Hurley?
dennis - great timeline
codysmom - would love a lost movie.
when ben was caught in danielle's net they had to see each other. if not then when she brought sayid to get him. its safe to assume that ben would recognize her if he saw her again. maybe thats why she keeps disappearing. she also knew right away he was an other.
For as long as she had been on the island why does it just leave her alone. she has been lurking around for years judging by the age of Alex.
libby = conning, maybe even a recruiter
I like the idea that the sub came and went under the sonic fence.
I also like that Bea and Patchy were banished to the Flame.
Admin, Libby was conning Hurley, definitely. (And I voted for your friends.)
Does anyone else think Danielle is an Other? She might be crazy but I've been suspicious since she gave Ben to Sayid.
This may seem out of left-field but with a N**** and P**** episode coming up, it's semi-relevant.
Does anyone else think these extras from Deus Ex Machina look like Nikki and Paulo?
I couldn't find any comments about it on any forums, but they seem to look a lot like them. Or I could be crazy.
Morning all!
I don't know if both Patchy and Klugh were banished to the Flame station. Remember Klugh got there by the horse that was tethered outside. She just might have been visiting Patchy. I think he was there by himself. She might have been sent there to warn Patchy that some Losties could be on their way to the Flame station.
Admin: I vote for Libby conning Hurley. (Although it would be sweet if it was real!) I think she had some ties with the Others.
Happy Saturday everyone,
Good points on the timeline Codysmom, I like all the points that you made about Mike, The Flame, the pact, etc.!
Admin, I tend to lean towards Libby not being as genuine as Hurley thought also. Although, I thought that her face was kind of hard to discern, because whether she smiled or winced, her face just sort of scrunched up, similar to Renee Zellwigger's (sp?). I believe that the pic you posted was her facial expression after Hurley said something about how people perhaps really can change (or get better?) after all, and she vaguely agreed with him, and then looked down and got that sad/mad look on her face. But, I still question her intent with our sweety Hurley. AND, I'm still hoping (if she is not genuine) that she is our missing Elizabeth from the Hanso Foundation.
You're right Aardvark, that does at least look like P****.
You know, after this month's episodes, I really don't care if Mike and Walt come back or not. It would be great if they did, but if TPTB give us a good explaination of why they wanted Walt, and what they did with and to him, I'll be happy with that.
Maven, even if Bea was exiled with Patchy, that could be her horse, and wherever she got banished, she took her horse with her. And there may have been clues around the Flame that we didn't see/catch, that Sayid caught that indicated to him that patchy wasn't alone there, e.g., bobbie pins, nail polish, ladies undies hanging out to dry in the bathroom...heehee. :o)
I'm so glad that I found this blog! It's awesome to be able to work these things out with you all. :-X
Just checking in...
Friday's child, cool avatar
libby = con/feels guilty about it
danielle - don't really know what to think of her ... one of the best kept secrets of the island! Maybe the "accident" that marooned her boat and crew of scientists was another form of "recruitment" by the others. I'd like to know what the "sickness" was that made her think she had to kill them all.
darkaardvark, I don't think the people in the picture you referenced from Deus Ex Machina looks like N#$%^^ or P$$%^^ at all.
Maven, maybe Patchy was banished to the Flame and Ms. Klugh was banished to the Pearl. Maybe the fact that Paulo was toting Dharma toilet paper around with him in Enter 77 is a clue that he's not what he seems and he's been at the Pearl's bathroom again and having a talk with Klugh. At least, I've always wondered why they made it a point to show us he had the tp (along with Sawyer's magazine). Sawyer doesn't like him, so I don't either, ha ha
capcom, I'm glad I found this blog, too!
fenris said....
3. This wasn't really from reading the comments but a general thing I have thought for a while. What if the island is just like the ship allegedly involved in the Philadelphia experiment. That ship was supposed to both go invisible and teleport. That would make the island pretty hard to track. That would also explain why the stars could move in two shots in the pilot if that is indeed the case.
I don't know anything about the Philadelphia experiment, but I am intrigued by this.
fenris also said....
6. We have to be careful of talking about Dharma and Hanso too much. Part of the reason for them doing the ARG was to cover stuff they didn't want to cover in the series, so while we are all no doubt hoping it ties in there somewhere it is unlikely to tie in everywhere and to everything going on this season. As such I still think it's worth remembering the potential excavation work going on offshore of the island near the Hydra camp. It does appear there was something special about the island before Dharma got there after all.
I agree there was always something special about the island. I think we can at least use our knowledge that Hanso funded the DI in an effort to change one of the core factors of the Valenzetti equation to avoid armegeddon. From there it gets fuzzy - exactly why and when was Dharma purged by the Others, was there a shift in power in the Hanso foundation before the purge, and why are the Others doing their own recruiting now?
One last question:
Why do I always have to enter wv more than once?????????????
Capcom and Codysmom: I also want to reiterate how great this blog is for "idea bouncing" and just a fun place to meet with fellow Lost fans!
I still think Klugh was not banished with Patchy at the Flame. She's been all over the place on her trusty steed...interrogating Walt at the "fake" Otherville. I think she was sent by Ben to warn Patchy that Losties could be around. They were probably planning what they were do if they were captured before Sayid approached and she hid in the storeroom.
Codysmom: I think it's a blogger conspiracy! They intentionally try to trick us by running v's together to make you think it's a w! LOL I'm sure I'm copying it right every time. It is to frustrating.
something fenris said about food drops:
"I reckoned the food drops came from some kind of warehouse within the island"
wasnt it right after the food drop last season that Tom and his gang did that whole don't cross this line thing? i was thinking that they got ticked because the beach peps took their food drop.
so if there is a warehouse on the island why would they do all this theater(giving the beachers a food drop and then acting all -keep your feet of the table, stay away from the line)
i am starting to lean towards the island time shift theory - that the island shifts in time and when it does it reappears and things like a food drop can happen or a ship or sub can find the beacon to the island
i read in a posting that someone suggested to look at the clock in Bens house and that it moves to different points in time very quickly with each screen shot. it makes me wonder if the island is acting normal now or its all screwed up do to Dharma messing with it?
Oh right, I forgot that Fenris mentioned the Philly Experiment. I love that story and Einstein's Unified Field theory, and Lost is the perfect place to use all that! Basically it's the co-manipulation of electric/magnetic/gravitational fields (which THF/DI was playing with in TLE as we know) and the uses were to either cloak something (like a ship) and render it invisible, by making the visible light go around the object, being repelled by the e/m/g field applied to it. Or, to move it to some place else (this supposedly happened to a battleship by accident during the supposed Philly Experiment in 1940-something). I would love for this to be the case with our island, in some aspect or another. People not being able to find the island because it moves around all the time would be awesome....or, its being invisible because of the e/m/g field.
This makes me really think that now that the sky turned purple (we really must create an official abbreviation for that!) now the island CAN be seen, and Ben is fibbing big-time about it. And that the whole manipulation/containment of the former Swan magnet-device was the source of the e/m/g field placed around the island to hide it. Or not. :o)
We could call it...
The Purpling!
the sky turned purple=TSTP
gets my vote (so did your friends, Admin, with all 5 of my email addresses)
and I think Libby was still in need of hospitalization, the weird stare in the photo was her zoning out for a sec. I don't know if she was truly into Hurley, or if she was a victim of the wish Hurley made when he told Charlie about his feelings for Libby.
Maybe Charlie is the box!...wait, no...
Codysmom and Maven, on wv's: I have found lately that unless I am "logged in" to blogger my comments are never posted. They just keep asking for my password, or the wv again. This is only since I switched from beta to the new Blogger. And that was only because I wanted to change my avatar, and it insisted on my upgrading to new Blogger before it would let me do that. Ick.
amused: I've tried everything. Even if I'm logged in, sometimes it asks for my u/n and p/w. Sometimes there's not even a scramble of letters, but they still want the WV! Very rarely does it only take once! But I'm not giving up...I'm still here! LOL
TSTP gets my vote!
Codysmom: Kudos to you for remembering all that technical "stuff" from TLE! I'm with you. We can't really trust anyone on the show, especially Ben. What if communications aren't really down and he's worried that the EMP opened a hole around the island and people can really find them now (hopefully Penny Widmore does)?
WVx2 again! :(
amused2bhere
Yeah I've had the exact same problems since I switched over and I was forced to also when I decided to start using an avitar.
Admin.
Looks like I'm going to be the only one but I think Libby's feelings were genuine.
babarajay
Yeah I'm begining to think Danielle is an Other too.
darkarrdvark
I don't think the girl is N*** the guy looks pretty close dark hair and beard same style of clothes but I don't thinks he's P*** either.
A few people have indicated that they believe that Libby has ties to the Others. If that was the case, was she really on Flight 815? Did she know it was going to go down? If she was, why would she be willing to risk death in the flight?
Just something I've always wondered.
Admin.
That's a good question although I have never thought Libby was an other. I have how ever thought that Cindy was an other and those same questions would pertain to her also if she's an other.
Maybe they never expected the plane to go down, since it was Desmond not pushing the button on time that caused it.
I dont think Libby was an Other. I just think she had an agenda toward Hurley, or maybe she was not fully recovered from whatever put her in the hospital in the first place.
Off topic: just saw "A Beautiful Mind", and I think I saw a clip from the Hanso video we assembled last summer--the one where Alvar talks about nuclear weapons destroying human life. You know, the one where the little shack blows away. Hmm...maybe I just watched that video way too often!
Hi all, sorry I didn't get back the same day. Not been feeling so hot as I have an ear infection at the moment (makes me a bit dizzy).
Anyway.
I agree that Locke has a connection with the island but I also think that Ben is not as pro-island as he seems. Despite all the stuff about being born on the island I think he plans to essentially kill the island, maybe by robbing it of it's secret/power and that the island knows this and will eventually try and stop him, probably via Locke. Just a hunch that one. But I think Ben not healing is because the island see's him as a threat and not a friend.
I also am beginning to wonder if the materialisation of horses, cats and all are really related to the smoke monster. We made quite a big assumption about this and it could be wrong. The only materialisation that we know was smokey is Yemi and I think figuring out exactly why it killed Eko in that instance is pretty important. I was thinking the island seemed to want Locke to save Eko, yet echo's dreams just seem to have been taking him to this judgement. Was it really so important to the island to judge Eko before it killed him or is the smoke monster entirely independant (and also able to send dreams perhaps).
On a side note: Did Desmond know Eko was going to die?
The Sub - Well it makes sense the sub is the way in and out of the village due to the security barrier, but why is it the only way off the island? We know they have Desmonds yaught and Julliet has to know that too.
I don't think Patchy was the guy at the Pearl. Although the argument makes sense. I just get the feeling that he was already perminently at the Flame and they only sent Bea there to check out the communications problems, so he wouldn't abandon his post to go check on the pearl. I think the smoking cigarette probably belongs to someone we haven't seen yet. Either that or Lockes dad maybe.
I'm wondering if the bit about the Others having been on the island before Dharma was acurate. We're they origionally Dharma employee's? I suspect so. Maybe it was this "virus" that made them turn on the rest of Dharma (the immune?). Perhaps the purge was genuine however, an attempt to irradicate the virus carriers.
Codysmom - To expand on the technical stuff Maven already posted (Thanks there), The Philadelphia Experiment was supposedly conducted by the navy in the 40's off of research done by Albert Einstien. The purpose was to make the ship invisible to give them an edge against German U-Boats, however it also made the ship teleport and caused all kinds of physical and mental damage to the sailors on it. Allegedly. If the island was under a similar effect it would explain a lot. Perhaps even part of the purpose of the Swan. Maybe the island was teleporting every 108 minutes, but since the station imploded it is no longer teleporting, but the Others don't know that due to the beacon being knocked out.
Although the problem with this whole theory is if the stars are changing surely someone would have noticed it, or at least the Others would have noticed if they stopped changing. I was actually more influenced by the movie "Krull" thinking of that theory because in that film the citadel of darkness teleports to a new location every dawn, to make it hard for people to find. However that was magic and I expect Lost to be science based not magic and the Phildelphia experiment was quite a famous conspiracy theory.
Andy - I don't think the others were peeved about loosing their food drop. I don't think Dharma would restrict the drops to one station per time. Plus I doubt they would know the location of the food station. It may even be another island, just off the coast like the Hydra facilitie.
Woah, that was long even for me. Consider it five or six seperate posts, posted at once to save space :)
I was just sitting at a Barbershop Quartet concert (interesting!) and thinking about what I posted above on the Philly Exper, and I realized some of what you said in your last post Fenris! What if the DI opened a big can of worms trying to do the Philly-X type science, and the result was the island popping in and out of everywhere?! Once they built it, the first time that it spontanteously teleported was The Incident maybe, and the e/m/g surge and teleportation became a permanent cyclical thing. So they either had to destroy it completely with a failsafe mechanism (which they probably would not want to do after all that work), or, punch in the release every 108" (perhaps like stalling until they could come up with a solution to stop the cycle). Now, what that has to do with saving the world (in Kelvin's words), I have no idea (unless Kelvin was just being sarcastic, he did have a major Attitude). So it's probably wrong. :o) But I'd also like to think (if the previous is the case) that's how Dr.Candle lost his arm -- in the same way that the sailors allegedly got stuck part-way in the ship when it disappeared and reappeared -- the island faded out and when it faded back in, some of the DI peeps were stuck in the walls and floors and trees and mountains, etc.! But that's just too crazy.
Fenris, you are in rare form tonight. It's all good.
Yemi was definitely the smoke monster, but didn't TPTB say we saw smokey lots of times and never realized it was smokey? I think it was during S2, and this is what is leading us to believe that Kate's horse, et al, are also manifestations of the smoke. Maybe not, but we still know smokey was more than just Yemi.
right?
I'm so confused.
Isn't too much thinking what we usually do around here? :o)
G'night peeps!
Libby,Libby,Libby,
Of all the people to run into at a coffee bar,it "just happened" to be the one who needed a boat in the worst way;Oh,Oh, and guess who "just happened" to have one.interesting.
Capcom and Fenris, I like your Philadelphia Experiment stuff. Hasn't the alleged date of the PE come up several times in relation to LOST? Too lazy on Sunday am to go to Lostpedia.
Libby. I can't decide about her. I don't think she's Dharma or an Other because the Others didn't take her when they took the rest of the Tailies and Cindy, nor was she that interested in The Swan.
I've heard a theory that she's a black widow, marrying men for their money and then killing them which would make Hurley target No. 1 on the Island. In a deleted scene from Season 2 when she and Hurley are washing clothes in the Swan she says she was married 3 times. He hadn't won his money at the time the two of them were in Santa Rosa together, but she probably saw Tricia Tanaka or other's puff pieces about him and recognized him when he won the lottery. Maybe she was stalking him in Australia. I'd really like to learn more about her, but I'm not holding my breath.
If she was a black widow this would make her a con artist, a profession which recurs through the series.
Go Bruins!
PS.
Admin;
I also voted for "Jashley"
fenris & capcom,
thanks for the extra info on the Philidelphia Experiment. Very interesting and something I will look into further.
BarbaraJay, I like "The Purpling"
maven, amused2bhere, & sayid'sgirl:
Glad it's not just me with the wv problems! I switched to the new blogger and have to go to my own blog to sign in (never have been able to sign in here). That's ok and once I do it I don't have to sign in again, but I still have to do wv usually 2-3 times! It could be the running v's making me think they are w's. Every once in a while, it goes on the first try.
memphish, interesting if Libby is a "black widow". And, yes, con artist is a profession starting to recur in the series.
Another theme beginning to recur is the fancy scotch. What are we to think of the ones who drink McKutcheon? Does Libby drink McKutcheon? Why was that bottle of the stuff on the plane for Des, Charlie, & Hurley to get drunk on?
Does anybody know if Libby was, indeed on the plane? I remember her telling Hurley, sure I was on the plane, don't you remember? You stepped on my toe rushing in. Or something like that. If she wasn't on the plane, someone must have told her he was late getting on and "rushing in".
capcom said - i was sitting at a barbershop quartet - first thing i thought of was kaiser sose(no ideas how to spell sose) from the usual suspects.-great movie
which reminds me of Ben as the master manipulator.
Morning all: The L.A.Times.com article that Memephish linked us to earlier was printed in the paper today. There were some new photos of Terry O'Quinn. One was of Terry on the beach "near his home" at sunset and the other was him in (I guess) a tree trunk like we've seen on the show in red shorts and a t-shirt with the "Locke stare". (Maybe Dennis can find the link to this photos for me.)
DarkUFO posted this: “Lost: Clip Show” (working title) is scheduled to air as a one time only telecast on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 in the 8:00 - 9:00 PM ET/PT time period.
8:00 - 9:00 PM Eastern/Pacific
7:00 - 8:00 PM Central
This will be before the Season 3 Finale.
Morning all! This blog never rests...thank goodness!
re: Libby- I always thought she was playing Hurley for some reason- now whether it was because she was an Other, a black widow, or some other reason I don't know.
memphish said...
He hadn't won his money at the time the two of them were in Santa Rosa together, but she probably saw Tricia Tanaka or other's puff pieces about him and recognized him when he won the lottery. Maybe she was stalking him in Australia.
You know I'm confused (I know you all already knew this- haha). Hurley had to have been in the mental institution to come in contact with Lenny and to hear the numbers, but then I thought he was in the mental institution after he won the lottery because of the guilt he felt when the balcony collapsed at a party (being part of the bad luck that the numbers caused). So was Hurley in a mental institution twice? or am I just confused? Also, I thought that the time that he and Libby were in together was after he won the money. Guess I need to go back and watch again.
Scoutpost: According to Lostpedia, Hurley was at Santa Rosa after his mom committed him for depression after the deck collapsed. That was when we saw Libby was there, too. He did go back there later just to look up Leonard to question him about the numbers. But he was just visiting. So Libby must have realized Hurley won the lotto from publicity stuff.
Scoutpost,
This is my understanding of Hurley's timeline: Dad leaves and Hurley eats to compensate, Hurley walks out on deck and two people die, Hurley does nothing but eat because of guilt and mom puts him in Santa Rosa with Lenny, Hurley locks Dave out of window and starts to get better (we see Libby), Hurley gets out of Santa Rosa and gets job at Mr. Cluck's, Hurley plays the numbers and wins the lottery, bad luck surrounds Hurley, Hurley returns to Santa Rosa as a visitor to speak to Lenny and learns about Sam Toomey, Hurley decides he needs to go to Australia to find out about numbers, Mom gets Dad to talk him out of it, Hurley goes to Austalia.
Hey, Memphish: GO BRUINS!
"When it says Libby's, Libby's Libby's on the label, label, label.." Heehee.
Howdy LoCos,
Gee, I definitely like the black-widow theory, that's very plausible and juicy! I can still also see her as an Other, because her actions were similar to Goodwin's....play the background, but participate enough in helping to get the Losties to trust them, etc. Was she wet or dry after the crash?
When this show is over and done with (not in a hurry for that at all, for the record) I get the feeling that when we get to look back at the overall arc of how TPTB wove the fabric of this story (with its multiple main stories and all it's many sub-stories), it will really be mind blowing. Already I really can't fathom how TPTB manage to keep all the pieces of this intricate story straight. Way too much multitasking for my brain!
Bigdog, where was a barbershop-q in that movie? I only saw pieces of it and then the last 1/2 hour or so, which was riveting and was awesome! Oh yes, Ben=Kaiser, I can so see that! They are both master manipulators, and masters at getting people to think what they choose to think about them, to achieve their motives.
I could defintely go for the wormhole thing, especially after seeing Contact.
Yes! Those mulitple vees in the WV are tricky!
Have a great new week everyone. :-)
P.S., TLCM wherever you are, we hope that you're enjoying your trip!
Memphish, that Hurley timeline sounds like my understanding as well.
Thanks memphish and maven. I guess I always thought that the deck collapsing was part of the bad luck the numbers brought on, but apparently not. So Hurley had bad luck before he won with the numbers too.
Good point about the pre-lottery bad luck Soutpost. Just goes to show ya, we sometimes don't notice things until our attention to it has been heightened by something, and that could be the case with Hurley.
Hiya, catching up again. :)
Capcom - Good point, I never actually thought about Dr Candles arm, but that would actually be a very good explenation. If we find a wall somewhere with the remains of a human arm in it we'll know we are on to the right tack. Also eww. Lol.
Amused - Yes the powers that be said something along those lines. I think they claimed we had all seen the smoke monster and missed it. Everyone assumed they meant Kate's horse and a lot of theories that have come up since then have been built around that assumption. I'm just wondering if that basic assumption was wrong. That would mean two things, firstly that Kate horse and maybe Sayids cat were either the actual animal or some form of hallucination (shared as it may well be). Secondly it means that we still don't know what it was we were supposed to have missed.
As for the Libby question - I have a feeling it's not going to be something huge to the overall plot but that her involvement will on a more personal level with Hurley and perhaps some others. There will probably be some mystery that will crop up, maybe an object or person from someones past that will lead to some kind of investigation which will reveal what the deal with Libby was.
The black widow idea is good and I have a theory about Desmonds link. She gave him the yaught because it had evidence of her murdering her previous husband somewhere onboard and she didn't want it around for the police to investigate. Which of course could be the trigger for said investigation. :)
Hi Again everyone- have loved reading comments…
Sayid’sgirl--- I’m with you in the minority- the romantic in me wants to believe that Libby was genuine- I think her “wince” after smootching Hurley was remembering her own troubles. (It’s the same romantic in me that swooned when Jack told Kate he’d be back for her….yeah, yeah….even with the whole Sawyer thing). Interesting theory though on her being an “other”---
Re: Hurley…since it seems timely to ask--- in the dave epi- can anyone make out the writing on the green chalkboard behind Hurley, Lenny (and Dave). It appears to say something to the effect of “Make your own….” I assume, “Luck” based on Hurley’s recent flashback…but I’m clueless about technology so can’t enlarge or pick out anything myself…anyone feel this is worthwhile (or already have the answer)?
I also agree, that if this concludes well--- re:watching to see it all unfold and “understand” it… will be incredible! Props to the writers…. I marvel at the ideas…
One more thought.... If we can suspect that Libby was an "Other" and she lasted through season 2..... is there anything that would have us "rule out" the possiblity that someone else still among our losties could be an "other"?
Marvin Candle's arm....anyone remember early on ( I think it was when they were coming back from the black rock) Danielle was talking about when "Tom" who we assume was part of her scientific party "lost his arm"? If this isn't my imagination remembering it, could it be that Candle WAS Tom? (not Tom of our Others) Yeesh, 3 posts in close proximity...sorry! After reading well over 500 comments.... y'know....
Well it's still possible Daniel was with Dharma and therefore Tom could be Marvin. We know he uses aliases (from the pearl vid).
lisa:
We hopeless romantics have to stick together. :)
I also have a feeling were going to find out that there are still others with the Losties.
Lisa, the person with Danielle who lost an arm's name was Montand. I was hoping that was the arm Vincent found in TTID, but of course, that was Roger Work Man's. I now we "know" that Roger died in the Purge or that the death of everyone else in the Purge is why they didn't come looking for Roger and the beer.
Fenris, I like the destroying evidence idea with the boat. Very sneaky.
Thanks Memphish....I was going off of memory...should have gone back to check the name for sure.
Regarding arms in walls: well Fenris, Kelvin did point to a splat of blood on the ceiling and say, "That's Radzinksy." Heh-heh, j/k. :o)
Re, Smokey: you also said, "Secondly it means that we still don't know what it was we were supposed to have missed." That is SO bugging me that no one has figured that out yet!!!!!
Also Fenris, that's totally compelling about Libby's reason for getting rid of the boat! Wow. You are good this week, and you're even not feeling well! :o)
I think that when posts get slow, we should make up new aliases for Dr. Candle/Wickman. Peter Paraffin...Walter Waxton...we could really go nutty, as we are wont to do when the spirit moves us. :-D
BTW, did I read that correctly over on DarkUFO that we will be getting three hours of Lost on the last night of S3? That is, one hour of Clips, and two hours of the last ep? Joy!
P.S., I like "The Purpling".
Capcom said:
think that when posts get slow, we should make up new aliases for Dr. Candle/Wickman.
Marvin Candle = Nomar Drips; Turon D. Lights; Thomas Taper; Nunyer Beeswax
Heh-heh, I knew that you could deliver Memphish. :o)
This may be a little over simplistic andI may be mistken about the order of things, but I always thought that the pillar of black smoke that Jack thought was Sayid's signal was smokey. I'm assuming that Sayid didn't set his signal fire until after the purpling (yes I vote for this too.)
But like I said I could have the order of things wrong. I also think that the pillar of smoke Danielle seen when they took Alex was smokey. We've seen how high it can get when it killed Eko.
You can tell when it's getting late I have even more typing errors. Sorry.
And the sad thing is,is that I always re-read it before I post.
Well almost always.
Yes, Sayidsgirl, I have always felt "iffy" about whether or not the so-called black smoke that Danielle referenced (and later that Sayid and Charlie saw) was Smokey or just the smoke signal (whatever the purpose for that was, I really didn't quite get that either). Now that I mention it, was the smoke pyre built by Danielle to get Sayid and Charlie out of the way so she could snatch Turniphead? Sorry if this was obvious, and I have just been slow on the uptake about it. :-p
BTW, I saw the movie "Amazing Grace" and it really put into perspective the whole slave trade thing, concerning the Black Rock. :-(
Sayid's Girl, I'm with you on the bad typing. Sign that even since The Purpling you are obsessed with LOST: When watching Discovery Channel you still wonder if it's a Dharma shark and when they say it's an Oceanic White Tipped Shark you go "I knew it they were in on it."
Bad News Guys!!!
Due to a change at work this weeks podcast won't be ready until tomorrow! But don't fret the awesome News is that Steve and I have two podcast ready for this week, so look for a bonus E-Mail podcast on Wednesday! How's that for giving you your lost fix.
No worries David. We'll look forward to both.
Amused2behere said: the sub could come and go under the fence. The other boats met the sub at Pala Ferry, and the sub would go under the island and come up in a small pool, inside New Otherton (what CC and DL call Otherville). So the town could be landlocked, and still be sub accessible, and the fence can still surround the entire barracks area.
Check out this point about 2/3rds of the way down in Utility Fog's latest post.
Good Morning LoCos! Looks like I have a lot to catch up on :)
I saw this funny little clip about Lost's final seasons on The Showbiz Show.
UCLA is in the BOX! GO BRUINS!
Morning all!
Hey, David...eagerly awaiting the Podcast...whenever!
Thanks, Dennis, for that clip. Do we all look like that? LOL
Memphish: I thought that the sub was docked in some river that leads to the ocean. The water looked very calm and glassy.
GO BRUINS! FINAL FOUR!
Happy Monday everybody!
Dennis- that clip is soooo funny. I'm sure that's how we all look and sound to our friends. Thank goodness we all sound normal to each other here!
capcom said...
BTW, did I read that correctly over on DarkUFO that we will be getting three hours of Lost on the last night of S3? That is, one hour of Clips, and two hours of the last ep? Joy!
And then seven months of silence....
What the heck are we going to do over the summer, much less the fall, with no TLE2?!! The 3 month break just about did me in.
Long post ahead!!!
Did anyone else watch the American Express Lost Moments stuff at ABC's site? None of their key moments referenced "the box"! I don't get that.
They did, however, reference something we haven't talked about too much here lately, and that's the existence of different factions of The Others.
Here are the assumptions I'm currently making about the factions:
1. There are at least two factions of The Others living in New Otherton at the moment.
2. Ben appears to be the leader of one of the factions (although he could report to Jacob, whomever or whatever that is).
3. Ben was genuinely concerned and caught unaware about how Sayid, Kate, and Locke got into New Otherton. Also, Ben was genuinely caught by surprise when Locke showed up at his bedside, gun in hand.
4. Isabel (the sheriff) is a member of the other faction of Others. She may be that faction's leader.
5. With Ben on the mend, Isabel is in charge of monitoring and security at the moment, and knew of the Losties' breach of the sonic fence (I don't believe for a moment that no person at the camp was completely unaware of the explosion at The Flame, of Patchy's sonic-fence zap, and of the Losties' scaling of the fence).
6. Isabel's faction knowingly permitted an armed Locke to approach Ben, hoping that Ben would be murdered.
7. Ben is aware that he cannot currently trust all of the people in the camp.
8. Richard Alpert is loyal to Ben, and is Ben's top trusted aide.
9. Mr. Friendly's sympathies probably do not lie with Ben's faction.
10. Juliet is not truly part of either faction. She has an agenda of her own. It could be as simple as wanting to get off the island, or it might be something unrevealed yet.
I don't have a good thought as to why there are different factions in the first place, though. In other words, why do some want to challenge Ben's leadership? Any thoughts about any of this?
The more Lost podcasts, the better, especially when they are from our own LoCo team, Passafist and the Goog. Don't worry David. We are a patient people (we have to be. We're Lost fans.)
I am NOT looking forward to the 7 month hiatus. I really hope there is a Lost related activity somewhere in there. I might just have to host a barbecue at my house sometime in the summer, rent a big HDTV for a Lost finale viewing, something like that...
And last night's Battlestar Galactica season finale was such a bombshell! and then they rubbed it in with "BSG returns in 2008!" Not fair!
I might just have to get a life.
Blueheron,
I think it's human nature for some people to rebel against leaders, no matter how good they are. Never satisfied, even if they couldn't do a better job, they constantly criticize and complain. Being a leader is not an easy job, you always have to deal with faultfinders and nitpickers.
It's easier to jump on the bash-the-boss bandwagon than to say something nice about those in charge.
Hi All,
Whew, that's some interesting list Blueheron. Perhaps the different Other factions are similar to Executive, Judicial and Legislative branches, but somewhat different in function?
Sheriff Nasty is obviously the long arm of Otherton law. Ben could be a general overseer in command of "human resources" (but must somehow be a little above the Sheriff if he can over-rule the punishment she dispenses), etc. Someone else might be in charge of island engineering logistics, like food drops, maintenance, construction, etc. And Jacob might be the head of all the branches/factions.
All these peeps might form different self-supporting teams that could also work at odds against each other if they disagree. For instance the way that a cooporation's engineering, administrative, and finance groups often fight each other for what they want. Each team might report to Jacob for their success or failure. And Ben might have to answer to Jacob for losing so many Others due to Lostaway problems, temps whining about going back home, etc., and if he can't justify it or he loses too many people, "unforgiving man" Jacob will drill him a new one so to speak.
Juliet may merely fall into the temporary help category, not truly being an Otherite (as far as she is concerned). But as we can see from what Ben said last ep, she's a temp but not really, and probably is not going to be granted or encouraged to go back home in an honest way. Ben obviously has ways of letting them go without really letting them go -- by making promises that can never be kept if he's lucky or crafty enough.
Add to all this the growing discontent that has been hinted at in the story, and Ben must really be sweating bullets for a while over how badly things are going! Sheriff Meany seems to be just sitting tight and watching it all happen, perhaps because all she has to do is arrest Ben's nutty people and rule over their trials while Ben twists in the wind.
Good Day LoCos
Only 7 months that would make it come back in December?
I thought it wasn't coming back until January or February.
I'll take 2 months earlier. Although that's to long too.
Sorry about the long post above. Oh yeah, I forgot to say that ALL the groups might be afraid of Jacob's unforgiving wrath, and I bet that when something goes wrong that they are all finger pointing at each other and going, "They did it!"..."No, it's their fault!"..."Liar, liar, pants on fire!" :o)
Amused said: "I might just have to get a life".....heaven forfend!! Well, I guess that we can all just buy the puzzles or learn how to play the complicated (so I hear) Lost board game over the summer and fall. :-p Or maybe we can get that Lost artwork quilt going that Maven proposed before. I have to admit I wanted to participate but health probs kept me from being able to unpack my studio. I would like to try again.
P.S. I would really like to know if/how old man Hanso figures into this island thing anywhere. Wasn't he worthy of being called the original great man, for his humanitarian intentions? I realize that the Others don't report to the HF/DI, but still.....
WV is "pondwip"....sounds like a Coolwhip version for frogs!
You know, the TPTB don't have to have another global ARG (although it would be nice). If they released some kind of PC or online personal Lost game to play, I could be easily bribed into not complaining about the long time off. :o)
Hi, everybody!! Warning,, longggg post ahead:)
blueheron13
some interesting observation about factions, et.
I was talking about this after Enter 77, but my ideas were tied into my crazy theories of the week.
Now that we've seen TMFT, Ben pretty much has told us that the other faction would be the recruited others who haven't "fully committed" to being there. I think that includes Juliet. These not-fully-committed others know that Ethan, Goodwin, Coleen, and Danny have died. I get the feeling they didn't think they're lives would be on the line by being on the island.
I agree that "Ben appears to be the leader of one of the factions", but I'm not so sure Isabell is part of another faction. She listens to Ben's directive (about Juliet's sentence after she killed Pickett) and Isabell just seems old-school, been-there-forever type Other to me.
I do agree with:
7. Ben is aware that he cannot currently trust all of the people in the camp.
8. Richard Alpert is loyal to Ben, and is Ben's top trusted aide.
After seeing Enter 77, I said...
There will be a war between the two factions for many reasons:
The Losties are screwing things up for all of them.
Ben is somewhat incapacitated for now, so he's not as in control as usual.
The food supplies will start to dwindle especially now that the Flame has been destroyed.
Their abillity to communicate with the outside world has been destroyed.
If they ever get the real story, I'm thinking the Losties will side with the recruited-others.
3/13/2007 10:34:00 AM
capcom said,...Ben must really be sweating bullets for a while over how badly things are going!
For sure!!
I also think that Ben's grand plan about Jack & Locke isn't working out. Way back when, he may have been in the Pearl and seen the tension between Jack & Locke.
Back on March 14 I said...
I wonder if Ben's long con on Locke was to get him into a position of leader? It started way back in Two for the Road; that he made Locke feel like it's him against Jack, making Locke feel more like a leader than he really is. Ben would want Locke as the leader after he takes Jack out of the picture, since Locke is easily swayed and a bit impulsive, thus playing right into what Ben wants.
3/14/2007 10:46:00 AM
To add to this now.....
Locke is surprising Ben while still seemingly playing into his hands (for now). I think it would be great if Locke (man of faith) ends up being the one to save them all. What does Ben think he's going to do with his "Dad" that he makes appear all of a sudden? Does he want him to run over and start strangling him and letting out all his wrath over what Cooper did to him? I hope John doesn't fall for that. Maybe Ben wants John to "lose faith" because that will take away his confidence and source of power (and maybe his ability to walk).
After seeing ABC's Lost and Found for this week, my thoughts:
Now that the sub is blown up (or they think it is) they'll have to turn off power to the Patchy-killing pylons (if they want or need to be anywhere but Otherville).
The other's who aren't yet "fully comitted" won't have the illusion of being able to get off the island, giving them even more reason to rebel from the Bens
One last thing!!! I highly recommend this find on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX5EMbYO-wY
I'm not anywhere near convince thet there is an
blueheron13 said... They did, however, reference something we haven't talked about too much here lately, and that's the existence of different factions of The Others.
I think the simple answer to this is that the two factions are: Ben and the other people who have lived on the island their whole lives, and the "new recuits", like Juliet, et al.
Amused2bHere said... I am NOT looking forward to the 7 month hiatus. I really hope there is a Lost related activity somewhere in there.
At the very least, there will be Comic Con in July (26-29)
Maybe Locke is all gung ho on destroying man-made things on the Island and is calling Ben a cheater as a way to convince the Island that he should not "be next." Locke says the Island killed Eko and I think Eko told John that John was next even though John told them all that we're next.
Blueheron, I agree that it doesn't make sense someone in security didn't know that Kate, Sawyer, Locke and Danielle were on their way. I like the idea that the Sheriff alone knew and wanted to see what would happen next.
I heard this on a podcast and wanted to share it here. Curt of The Black Rock podcast hypothesized that the "box" was actually a Dr. Who type portal and that when Ben told Richard to get TMFT, Richard went to the portal, traveled to AC's location, subdued him and brought him back to the Island via the box. To me this is a better explanation for why AC looks beat up.
It sure is quiet around here today.
hmmm, quiet
sorry for long post, but at least see the youtube.... it's funny!
TPTB won't be telling us about the "box" for a lonnnggg time, we can theorize all we want...
wv= forkmm :)
Erich, When I watch the episode, it doesn't look to me like it's smoking, but TPTB have mentioned in The Official Podcast several times that it was a freshly smoked cigarette.
I'm having a reconciliation problem as well. Good news is that we should have some answers this season.
erich
Carlton and Damon said in their podcast that it was a smoking cigarette. The were several people who had asked what they were suppose to be looking at.
I was wondering the same thing. It looks like the cigarette they found in the Pearl is not the "smoking" cigarette - that was in the pearl orientation video. However, I watched the video online and do not see anything.
Here's what I found at Lostpedia about the cigarettes:
• There's a cigarette among various debris on a table in The Pearl Station in "?".
• In the Pearl Orientation video, when Mark Wickmund is standing in between the two viewing chairs, you will see cigarette smoke rising up to his right.
Erich, I'd guess it's the OLP right after ? aired, but I have no idea where you might find it archived.
Most Podcasts are archived on Lostpedia.
The Podcast after "?" is the May 15, 2006 podcast.
From the Podcast notes:
Damon Lindelof mockingly states that, when Locke and Eko enter the Pearl station, there was a "still burning" cigarette on the table. This was a joke about the fan theories that someone had been in the station moments earlier. While there was indeed a cigarette, it appeared to have been discarded long before Locke and Eko arrived.
Wow, you guys have been busy theorizing (as usual)! I, too, am dreading the long hiatus and don't want to lose touch with all of you (at least I'll have a grandchild to keep me busy come September!)
Re Other factions. I tend to feel that there was only one group of Others than broke in two...but not two separate groups that live apart from each other. Whenever you get a group of people together, there's always personality differences, power plays, different ways of doing things. I think Ben has always been in charge, but is beginning to see his power erode. Newer recruits (like Juliette) are not totally committed and want to leave. Maybe Sheriff Isabel is exerting power. Maybe some are getting pissed that a lot of their people are getting killed. Ben is definitely concerned that the Losties can unbalance his power...especially Locke.
Listening to the podcast now...
• about half way through, D&C mention the Mobisodes...
• Question about the cigarette at 14:14.
Damon: "It was a cigarette, that was still burning..."
just checking in
maven said...
Re Other factions. I tend to feel that there was only one group of Others than broke in two...but not two separate groups that live apart from each other. Whenever you get a group of people together, there's always personality differences, power plays, different ways of doing things. I think Ben has always been in charge, but is beginning to see his power erode. Newer recruits (like Juliette) are not totally committed and want to leave. Maybe Sheriff Isabel is exerting power. Maybe some are getting pissed that a lot of their people are getting killed. Ben is definitely concerned that the Losties can unbalance his power...especially Locke.
I totally agree with you!
Codysmom,
That You Tube was funny.Thanks.
Maven,
Sounds great about your Grandchild coming in Sept.We will have 2 grand children (1+4) staying with us for a few weeks next month.It will be great,but I can barely keep up with you guys now.
I hope everyone is having a good week. Those Others are sure hard to figure out.Between the lies,half-truths,and "It's complicated";
You can't tell one Other from another.
Dennis,
Thanks for the cigarette info.(Smoke'em if ya got 'em)
Final Four,Go Gators
Good comments, codysmom and everyone else. I now can't decide if I picture Isabel more on Ben's side or the other side of this whole faction thing. I do think that the division among the Others runs deeper than just newer recruits vs. older Others. Didn't Ben say that only a few had been born on the island?
Anyway, back to Isabel, it's weird how she was introduced as a major character but we haven't seen her since. I have a theory about who she is, but it's based on rumors so I won't state it here.
Will catch up tomorrow, bye.
Blueheron said: I do think that the division among the Others runs deeper than just newer recruits vs. older Others. Didn't Ben say that only a few had been born on the island?
I don't necessarily think it's native born Others vs. recruits (old or new). I think maybe the division mentioned by Ben pertains to everyone's commitment to being on the island (and doing whatever they do). Maybe even some of the few native-born Others even want out or want to control their little society. Ben seems a little nervous and doubts his control over everyone. One would think that seeing Ben in a wheelchair, while a once paralyzed Locke walks around would undermine one's authority and knowledge of the island's powers.
BTW: Hope TLCM's trip is going well and we see her back here soon!
Takes a Village: You're going to have to give me Grandma tips! LOL (I know one already...give them everything!)
takes a village said... Final Four,Go Gators
I'm sorry, there's only room in the box for UCLA. :)
Out of curiosity, are people in FL talking about Billy Donovan going to Kentucky?
Dennis,
The word is just getting out.
I hear that payback is a N****.
Ihope not:)
Off to watch 24.
G'night all.
takes a village said...
Codysmom,
That You Tube was funny.Thanks.
You're welcome. Glad you liked it!
luckyguy, yes Tom does quote Hanso! I was thinking about that, too. Maybe there are some of the Others that didn't totally approve of the "purge" of Dharma.
Ok, hi fellow losties. I am a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time lurker, even since TLE days.
ok so my point, TPTB say that the others didn't know about the swan, but how couldn't they? I mean all the food is marked with a dharma swan logo isn't it? i may be wrong and did not get enough evidence to draw this conclusion. i could ahve sworn in ben's fridge was a swan logo.
Have had to lurk most of the day, but have enjoyed reading all the comments. Can't wait til the podcast tomorrow. Just checked spoiler fix which was updated today. If you go to the 3/26 update, you'll notice that that episode has quite an interesting guest starring list. At least I thought so. Good night, see you all tomorrow.
http://www.archive.org/download/TLCpodcast17_01/TLCpodcast17_01_64kb.m3u
Hey, It's a New Podcast!! AWesome!!
Looking forward to the TLC podcast. There's a new Official Podcast up as well.
Maybe Tom quotes Alvar as part of the con that that the Others are Dharma. It's the same sort of con Mikhail attempted. Maybe Ben's Plan A was to pretend to be Dharma.
Warning: There are definitely spoilers in the OLP. Keep that in mind before you listen or read summaries of the OLP.
2 Clarifications from the OLP. The box is a metaphor, not a refrigerator box in the jungle. DL and CC imply that Kate's horse, Sayid's cat and Jack's dad may have come from the box. Does this mean they are not Smokey? Don't know. They don't talk about that.
They also say the sub really blew up, and they discuss potential factionalization of the Others for those of you who were discussing that here yesterday.
There is a new post on the front page everyone!
"DL and CC imply that Kate's horse, Sayid's cat and Jack's dad may have come from the box. Does this mean they are not Smokey? Don't know. They don't talk about that."
Totally called that :)
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