According to the "Official Lost Podcast", the show's producers are very excited about tonight's episode. They say that it may make people say they've "Jumped the Shark". They also claim that Nikki and Paulo's flashbacks will satisfy people who wonder who they are and why they're here. I'm looking forward to having my skepticism about N & P erased by tonight's episode!
Wednesday, March 28, 2007
EXPOSÉ - SEASON 3, EPISODE 14
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1 – 200 of 346 Newer› Newest»Hey guys! Sorry about the delay in this post. I put the post together at 5pm and then went to a Dallas Mavericks game. I assumed Dennis would post it at episode time.
My bad.
FIRST!?
Here's a serious question. What was with Sawyer not knowing them the whole episode even when reminded that he knew them? Did the Others do something to him? Did that brief exposure to Room 23 do it? Is it the sickness?
(after the administrator of course...)
I can't believe I'm saying this but...that was a really great episode! I'm a sucker for flashbacks of events from previous episodes but from a new perspective. I never really was a hardcore hater of N & P (even though I didn't really like them either), and I must say I actually feel a little disturbed/sad about what happened there at the end...I kind of felt myself shouting in my head "wait, wait, stop!", definitely not what I expected I'd be thinking after an N & P episode.
So the theory of N**** and P**** replacing Shannon and Boone was bogus as was the fact that Desmond can time travel affecting them. Sorry David and Goog and whoever came up with that. I knew via spoilers it pretty much wouldn't, and I have to say I'm glad.
I'm re-publishing this from the previous post:
Dolenore: I thought that Arzt explained the spiders worked this way: the female's pheremones attract the male spiders at an alarming rate when out itn the open. He kinda inferred that cause he had her in a bottle, he was safe.
So our Beach Losties have a walkie talkie that connects to Ben's Others now. That could be important.
I'm also reposting from the previous post-
Good Evening Locos-
What is up with all the hate for this episode? I personally enjoyed it and thought it was a very well put together hour of LOST. It answered some questions, filled in some 'missing time' and was enjoyable, espically the beginning with N doing her little floor show. :-)~
Major drag on N and P buying it like that, but that's what smokey wanted. At least they didn't get the rag doll treatment Mr. Eko got.
hi there memphish, let me know when wood's take is up tomorrow. I look forward to him putting it all together for us. I really like his takes on LOST.
Dolenore said:memphish: No, that was just fan service... Even at the very end? It still seems weird to me. Hurley even calls him on it and at the very end he still persists.
I like Kiele Sanchez; she was good. The Brazilian Tom Cruise left me pretty much the way the real one does. I hope he acts better in Portugese.
I was hoping there at the end when P**** was talking about being rescued he was going to say he'd talked to the Portugese cold weather guys on his walkie talkie. But no.
Repost:
Hi! I didn't hate this at all. I have to admit that I too thought that I had turned on CSI with all the lame stripping going on! LOL! I was a little disappointed in the repeating of all the scenes that we have already viewed before, but what the hay. I would still thank TPTB for this episode if I saw them walking down the street.
Nice to see ol' Doc again. And for Charlie to fess up about the attack was interesting. Maybe he is turning over a new leaf. And it was a nice surprise to get a shot of Ben and Jules in the Pearl! Some answers given there! Ok, only a few, but that's better than none.
Has anyone looked up those spiders yet to see if they are real yet? I'm sure someone will by tomorrow a.m. :o)
Well, talk about a well deserved ending for two slimeball characters. But, they might wake up again and crawl their way out.
Chucklez....take a deep breath. You can't say that you could not see this as a possible alternative scenario coming down the line. Now, concentrate on where you are at this moment and go forward. Maybe you were meant to be here in this place, at this time, for a reason. Make the choice to create something positive for your life out of it. Maybe you'll meet the real true love of your life where you are now, who knows? Put the past behind and look forward.
The previews were interesting. BTW, last week's previews made it look as if Sun hit Sawyer in the head with a shovel and was burying him. Cheap shot.
Okay, I was hoping that those two would bite it tonight, but what a grusome way to go!
My favorite line, from Sawyer, naturally:
"What, is there a forensics hatch that I'm not aware of?"
I'm calling it a night. Hopefully there will be something to talk about tomorrow other than the brief preview. The episode was entertaining, but not much to keep me talking for a week.
memphish - I also thought it was weird that Sawyer kept on with the wrong names, etc, but too me it just seemed like a joke that went on a little too long. It was hilarious the first time he asked "who the hell are you" before the ping pong game, but when he said it for the eighth time tonight, I was thinking, "I get it, they came out of no where."
BTW - I find it funny that we never actually see anyone PLAY ping pong. Maybe the actor's aren't very good at it. :)
Also......I guess that P**** is now "Sir-Pretends-to-poop-alot"! :o)
Ha! Girl fight!! What, were they handcuffed together a-la Sidney Poiter and Tony Curtis in that escpaped prisoner movie?
Wow! A new walkie! I hope that they put it to good use.
P.S. Tha's OK Admin, and thanks for the new thread. :o)
Here you all are...
The end was disturbing, even if we bleep their names
I'm wondering if the Losties have given up on ever being rescued if they let the diamonds be buried, since they're not worth anything on the island (as Sun said)
Ugh, I hope next week isn't an hour of my two least favorite ladies scratching and pulling hair in the jungle.
repost from last thread...
Codysmom said...
memphish, when you said,
I don't understand why they went to the trouble to cast these people as regular cast members in order to produce essentially this one episode that makes fun of the series and of a bunch of other things as a whole.
It makes me think TPTB really do listen to what's being said on the blogs and pander to the general consensus. This attitude is what made them decide to split up the season this year (which didn't turn out well, they even admit)
I actually liked seeing things from a different point of view.
Hello...nature went silent when the ********* showed up. What's the connection?
And can anyone enlighten me as to who was mentioned when Paulo had to hide to keep from being found? I had a scratchy throat tonight, and was clearing my throat right at that moment.
I still would have kept the diamonds, the way Locke originally kept the Mary statues. You never know when you might be able to use them. And if they ever did get back to the world, they won't exactly have much money to start a new life with. But the point that Sun was making was pertinent. It also seems like a new kind of Sawyer that would let the diamonds go and not hoard them.
I have to say, I thought TPTB did a good job at inserting N & P into past events. I especially loved Boone running through the wreckage, asking everyone if they had a pen. I always forget about that, and it cracks me up every time.
Melissa Lossa: I was trying to remember what the Boone pen part was about...refresh my memory if you would be so kind. :-)
Hey Y'all,
Best episode ever!! N***** & P***** are dead! And N***** gets killed 3 times! The only way this could be better is, if they wake up next episode and get killed again.
Dig Y'all Later
I thought tonight's was a great episode. I was suspecting the whole time that n and k were not actually dead because why else would we keep seeing so many shots of their bodies and their faces with their eyes open. That is just a little too weird to keep seeing dead peoples faces so I susspected that we were being fooled.
Plus I am now also assuming that it was P**** smoking in the Pearl.
cj - Jack was doing CPR on someone (Rose maybe?) and Boone was trying to help because he had been a lifeguard, but he was doing it wrong. Boone asked Jack if they should try that thing where you stab the person in the neck with a pen to relieve the pressure. Jack sarcastically tells him yeah, and to go find a pen (basically, to get rid of Boone). Boone runs off and Jack saves the person. Quite a while later, Jack is walking on the beach, and Boone runs up with like five pens and says that he wasn't sure which one would work. Jack just stares at him.
I don't know why, but I always found that whole exchange really funny.
This ep definitely won't gather 400+ comments in 24 hours, but it was a pretty good episode. This is about as much as an "answer" episode as we get these days. Still, it was fun to see old characters and connections, and they gave us a little better sense of time between some events.
How funny was it when Paulo didn't want to get in the plane, and Nikki didn't want to go down in the hatch? But man, what a terrible way to go. Uck.
A few questions:
- What was with all the spiders showing up? Mystical island happenings? Did the island want them dead?
- I'd like to watch some of those "overlap" scenes again to see what we might learn, particularly the initial crash scene. Remember in S1 when you can see the smoke monster "swoop" into the exploding engine? I wonder if there's anything like that in this ep.
- Clearly Paulo saw the smoke monster, seemingly initially upon landing (hence the faraway look)! P & N talked about the "monster" later. Paulo wasn't with them when the pilot got eaten, was he?
CJ, Boone thought that he was helping Jack with a trachiotomy (sp?) by finding the perfect pen for it. Jack just kind of let him go do it, to get him out of his way, so he could save...um, Rose was it?
Tim...is that the SNL landshark in your avi?? Too funny. :o)
Excellent eye!
"Candygram!"
Tim, we were talking about expecting a Dhamra Landshark to arrive at one of the Otherville doors many, many threads ago, maybe all the way back in S2.5.
Thanks for the visual!!! :o)
Wow. I agree, this was a really good episode. I actually cheered when N*kk* bit it in the beginning, and then every time we saw their seemingly dead bodies, but I think I cheered the loudest when she opened her eyes just in time to see a shovelful of dirt in the face. Awesome!
Does this make me a bad person?
{hangs head in shame}
Okay everybody - time for me to hit the sack. Good night!
I also love to see replays of earlier episodes with another perspective. And episodes from those outside the main characters, to see the main characters from the extras point of view. This episode did both of those.
As for next week, all I can say is
Go SuperKate!
amused - I was just saying to someone today that I was hoping that N & P's whole purpose on the show was to die horribly in a fiery explosion, so if you're a bad person, then so am I.
For the record, I spent a good portion of last season saying that I hoped Ana Lucia would get shot in the face. And yes, that is way too violent for such a nice girl. :)
Okay, really good night!
thanks dolenore!
(time to get a new avatar...hmmm, what can I find?)
brb
Q: how can you breath when your entire body is paralized? Don't your involuntary muscles/functions (i.e., lungs) get paralized as well? Just trying to understand why they can't talk or move, but they can breath well enough to wake up normal after 8 hours.
I suppose that someone will look this up as well by tomorrow morning.
Another question. If Artz named the spider Latrodectus regina, and gave it the common name of "Medusa spider," that implies that he knew the effects of the toxin. How?
i love the way this ep constantly spoke to the viewer. A very light episode, if that's possible with such a gruesome death. Lots of death in the show lately... Tricia Tanaka...Mikhail...N&P...
And Capcom, too funny. I haven't been posting here too long, but I wish I would have seen that.
Love this commenting though. Ya'll are great.
"Uh, no ma'am.... I'm just a dolphin."
Night.
Lucky, maybe TPTB were taking N&P on the same payback trip that they took Eko and others on. They could still wake up coughing sand in a future episode, to hopefully fulfill whatever their intended purpose was/is in the story.
bookpolice, i was just thinking the same thing!!
Bookpolice, Arzt strikes me as the kind of guy that would consider a little light reading to be an encyclopedia of spiders. :o)
G'night all till tamale!
RIP Nikki and Paolo.
Even though they were the characters everyone loved to hate, I liked them, espically Nikki. Her lovely smiling face will be missed.
Good Night Now-
WWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
What a way ti go huh?
I have to admit that as I watched I got more and more hooked on the way TPTB were taking it.
Knowing things like P**** and N**** actually found the Pearl Station first kindof pissed me off a bit though. They were there for ten seconds and "oh... whats this?"
While Locke and Sayid... two of the most observant people on the islandwere both there without noticeing a damn thing... I don't think so.
Plus I liked the way they did it. It gave TPTB a way to tell a different kind of story and in my opinion take a pot shot at CSI:NY. It was their own little way of teying to give CSI's PTB noogies for all the wrong they have done... lol
Over all though it was a great episode and I tought that while we got some decent small answers the biggest reveals were between our losties themselves. It's nice to see that they are beginning to trust each other enough to talk to each other ... Bad or Good. I was impressed.
ICONIC... NO, but a good try. They are striken from all reference... as was said in a podcast... lol
C-ya and Namaste
capcom, that would explain it.....if L. regina was an actual spider in the non-island world. But it isn't, and the Doc gave it a very meaningful name. The writers wouldn't be so careless.
Book, then he was just being a showoff blowhard, and making things up to impress a pretty girl, the kind of girl who never ever talks to him in his off-island life? :-D
trying out the new avatar------------------------------------>
But he was right! He wasn't just making stuff up to seem impressive. I just wanna know how he knew.
AC, I think Shannon was just being snarky and mean to Boone. As usual.
I have to say, I'm not convinced that N & P are dead. There is a reason that the last flashback, where N takes P into the woods to confront him, takes place at "8 hours", and N says that the bite effect will last...yep, you guessed it, 8 hours. N opening her eyes at the end may have been more than excellent Hitchcockian tribute...they technically should have been regaining their strength right about the time the dirt started flying. The question left to ask is, is it possible for a person buried in dirt to dig themselves out of it while buried?
Why can't a person learn about flora, fauna or spiders that live on another land mass from books? O maybe he's been to other islands with weird spiders before? He is a self-proclaimed very scholarly guy. I guess that I don't understand your Q. So-solly.
Yep CJ,
Take my word for it. Diggin out can happen.
Totengraber, that sounds like personal experience.
Ew.
Don't want to know (well, yeah, I actually do, but...ew.)
So glad you are better now.
new avatar too creepy?---------------------------------->
capcom - Okay, here.
-Dr. Arzt discovers a bunch of new species (by his own estimation, admittedly).
-He describes to Nikki the behavior of the spider, as it relates to pheromones and mass attraction.
-He names a spider from this menagerie after Queen Medusa, who paralyzed her victims with a glance.
-His name is proven to be very appropriate as the bite of this spider paralyzes the sufferer.
How did he know what the effect of the bite would be, since it's obvious from the name he gave the spider that he was aware of the results of a bite? Who got bit for him to observe the effects? How did he know that the pheromonal attraction would result in a gajillion spiders massing at the scene?
There's no book that has info on this spider in it, because it was a new species. There is no spider whose bite leads to the symptoms we saw.
It's not a really big deal, I just want a little clarification.
Twernt me Sugar, but thats why the oblong box has a lock.
just finished watching for the first time. That was the absolute lamest episode of LOST ever! I have never absolutely hated an episode, but this one set a new record. Nikki and Paulo's storyline too lame for description. You can tell it is there just to fill time in the season.
I hope they remain buried and die a painful death. It would only be suiting after making me go through that hour of pain.
Amazing that they found a hatch and didn't tell anyone or use it. Just goes to show how bad writing can be when you try to add it midstream.
The two positive items out of the entire episode are:
1. Ben knowing about the Pearl. I think it is a safe assumption after seeing this epi that the others know about all the hatches on the island and what their purpose is. It would be too weird to me that they can find the Pearl, Flame, etc.,but not know about the swan. Especially since the swans demise has had such a negitive effect on their island lifestyle.
2. I have been saying this all along, and I think the writers tipped their hat to it tonight. Juliett has been an accompliss in Ben's plan to get Jack to the surgery the entire time. And yes, she planted the idea to kill Ben as a manipulation technique. Juliett is not tormented, and does not want to leave the island in my opinion. Ben has been using her against Jack because he "found out what he cares about and expolited it." Juliett is the damsel in distress, and Jack needs to fix it. She also acts and looks a lot like Sara who Jack cares for. Ben is good!
Going to catch up on comments and re-watch. See you in a bit....
ac,
If you think about it, we know that Boone and Shannon had recently bumped uglies, so it is safe to say that she was just being Shannon.
CJ,
Yes it is. Their have been many accounts of people digging themselves out of wrongful graves. Apparently it all starts with wiggling the fingers and works from there.
And I still don't believe it was the smoke monster that was around the engine when Troup got sucked in to it.
DeDJeZTeR says:
Yes it is. Their have been many accounts of people digging themselves out of wrongful graves.
Around here we call it a "Texas Funeral".
Dig Y'all Later
Melissa_Lossa said... BTW - I find it funny that we never actually see anyone PLAY ping pong. Maybe the actor's aren't very good at it. :)
Listen to this weeks abc podcast. Hurley is so bad at ping pong he went and bought a table to practice when he found out ping pong was involved in a scene.
Sawyer actually is good at ping pong according to the podcast. So good in fact, his little trash talk before playing Hurley he said came naturally since he typically is taunting the people losing to him at ping pong.
TBP,
Maybe we are to assume that Artz himself got bit... hear me out.
Artz is out in the woods looking for these knew species and gets bit in a remote area that know one has been, or will be and he thinks he is going to die, but eight hors later heis able to move again and now knows what this tiny biter can do....
Just a guess.
oh yeah, is it just me or did Juliet and Ben (while in the Pearl) walk down a hallway and then you hear a door close. They could not have possibly climed the ladder that fast.
Tim said... - I'd like to watch some of those "overlap" scenes again to see what we might learn, particularly the initial crash scene. Remember in S1 when you can see the smoke monster "swoop" into the exploding engine? I wonder if there's anything like that in this ep.
Dude, smokey did not go into the airplane engine. It was smoke from the engine being on fire before it exploded. I even believe TPTB confirmed this in an abc podcast.
Ben & Julie came through the secret underground tunnel system. They couldn't take a chance of being spoted by Locke or the french chick, untill it was time for Henery to infiltrate the Swan. The tunnel system is clearly marked on the D.I. maps like the one Captin Jehad was lookin at.
I've got to side with thebookpolice on the whole spider issue. I actually think that is what the producers meant when they said some people with think this epi jumped the shark.
Artz says he believe he discovered a new species. Without performing tests on the effects of it's bite, and on it's mating habits, he would have no possible idea that the effect of the bite is being paralyzed, and that one wiff of her smell and males come running. There would be no book where he could learn this if it is a "new species."
Exacly what I was thinking Toten. There is another way into the Others camp that none of them either know about or just never investigated and it also leads to the idea that when they first entered (Eko and Locke) that they just didn't bother to go after the person who was there smoking the cigarette.
diggitydirge, I totally agree with your #2
Did anybody notice that Vincent knew N & P weren't dead, evidenced by his pulling the blanket off of them...
Codysmom,
Great call I recall thinking it was weird, but let it go as the episode went n. Nice catch.
I tell ya it don't get much better that Lando Calrissian shootin N**** at the start. I thought I was watching the wrong chanel!
another thing I noticed was the clothes Ben and Juliet wore seemed a bit "weird"?
Vincent was just showing his disrespect, I was waiting for him to hike a leg : )
They were wearing the redneck gear that they wore as disguises. I believe.
nice catch on the Vincent thing codysmom. I didn't notice that the first time. Totally agree!
I'm not ready to make the jump about the underground tunnel system, or that Paulo was the one smoking in the hatch.
I think the losties would have found the tunnel system by now. (they have found 4 hatches, and been prisoner in another and found nothing) Also, wouldn't Miss Klugh have used the tunnel to escape rather than trying to overcome Kate and telling Patchy to kill her? We need more evidence to make this leap.
It would logical that it was Paulo smoking the cig since he seemed to be going there by himself, and using Nicorrette to quit smoking. But where did he get the cigarette from to smoke it? That's the question. I haven't seen anyone with a pack, or smoking for that matter. I also have not seen any Dharma brand ciggs in the food drop. I still think we need more evidence. It could have been anyone sent to the hatch to observe Jack since it seems Ben had to go to the pearl to observe the swan.
If you have to walk 5 miles and crawl down a hole to watch TV, yon might be a redneck from otherville.
What I thought was interesting was what Juliet said in the Pearl station: something along the lines of "Can we leave now...this places gives me the creeps." Juliet being a little freaked out by the Pearl basically leads us to infer that The Others are really not a part of those stations...in other words, the Hostiles or the Dharma Initiative people (or whoever came before) likely take ownership of those stations, and not The Others, who seem to simply be using them to their advantage currently. Thoughts?
cj, The Others ARE the hostiles who wiped out Dharma. (Juliet came to the island after the purge.) Ben and Co. have been using the hatches and, I guess, everything else that was Dharma (including their food).
On that note, I've been wondering if Otherville must also have been Dharma and they are using the old barracks as their homes?
CJ,
I agree with your statement above about the others did not create the station/hatches, but I do think the others know where every station is and what purpose it serves. There are certain stations that they choose to occupy and control and others that serve no purpose for them.
I can't decide if the writers are working towards revealing Ben's plan to get Locke to stop pushing the button, or if Ben really did not know the effects of not pushing the button. I guess if I was in Ben' shoes, the only hatch I would be concerned about controlling would be the one with connection to the outside world.
just re-watched the spider bite scene. Smokey definetly rears his head although we didn't see him. The NY taxi ticket tape sound is playing clearly when you start to see the male spiders.
In the abc podcast a few weeks ago, someone confirmed that the printing sound we hear when we see smokey is a NYC taxi ticket printer. I can't remember if it was the interview with the guy from Lost Mag, or the lady that runs the set.
Anyway, why did smokey come into play at the end to take part in Nikki's bite? Thoughts?
codysmom: of course, I keep getting confused by the term "hostiles", that is what I meant, thanks :-)
My prediction: the 4th season will focus on learning about the detailed history between The Others and the Dharma Initiative (and the corresponding history of the island), because...the Others and the Losties are forced to live together!!! What incredible tension could come from Others and Losties coexisting side-by-side!
Then, Season 5 (the final season?) is all set up for a conclusion involving everyone getting off the island...or total destruction of the world...whichever comes first.
I'm re-watching with no sound because my media center screwed up, but it's interesting this way:)
Another thing I noticed
When N**** is looking for the diamonds and P**** is just laying there, she takes off his shoe and throws it. The shoe ends up in the crook of a tree branch. Is this a shout-out to the white tennis shoe in a tree way back in season 1, and then later we see Christian (Jack's dad) in a suit and white tennis shoes?
Interesting place for P**** to stash the "family jewels" (sorry, couldn't help myself)
couldn't see the smoke monster, but definitely heard it...
ok, good-nite
c u tomorrow
Administrator said... I assumed Dennis would post it at episode time.
Sorry I wasn't around to put up the new post. I have bowling on Wednesday nights, so I don't get home until 11:30 EDT. :( Fortunately, next week is my last week. WooHoo!
memphish said... Here's a serious question. What was with Sawyer not knowing them the whole episode even when reminded that he knew them? Did the Others do something to him? Did that brief exposure to Room 23 do it? Is it the sickness?
I think it was just Sawyer being an ass, as usual. Plus, it seems like N&P kept to themselves, then all of a sudden Nikki shows up and wants a gun?
OMG: I've got so many comments to catch up!
I'm just gonna say now that I thought it was an interesting episode...it's fun to see what we've already seen from someone else's perspective. It was pretty straight forward. Gosh, everyone is so secretive on that island, aren't they.
And Sawyer can still get in good Sawyerisms and there were sure a lot of references to other shows! (24, CSI and Heroes)
Playing catchup...
Totengraber said... Ben & Julie came through the secret underground tunnel system.
There was no secret tunnel. Ben and Juliet came in through the hatch door, the same way Paulo did.
Here is what they are saying when they first arrive:
Ben: Who left this open?
Juliet: Tom was down here a couple of days ago.
Ben: Have him cover it up with the plane
Maybe the cigarette is Tom's?
Here is the transcript for the rest of the scene:
Juliet: Is that him, Shepard?
Ben: Yes.
Juliet: He's cute.
Juliet: Why are we doing this? Shepard will never agree to do the surgery.
Ben: No, I can convince him to do it.
Juliet: How?
Ben: The same way I get anybody to do anything.
Ben: I find out what he's emotionally invested in, and I exploit it.
Juliet: So what? We just grab all three of them? Ford and Austin too?
Ben: No, they need to come to us.
Juliet: And how do we make that happen?
Ben: Michael, of course.
Juliet: Are we done here? This place gives me the creeps.
Just rewatched the Pearl seen with Juliett and Ben. I need some help pinpointing the dialogue. When they first walk in,
Ben: who left this open.
Juliett: **** was down here a few days ago. (sounds like Tom)
Ben: Have them cover that up with a ***** (sounds like plank)
Pretty sure they entered through the top side door and Ben wants it covered so no one else can find the hatch.
Also, who was down there observing the losties? Tom would make sense. Again, more evidence that the others were using the Pearl to spy on the swan, and that someone else could have been smoking besides Paulo.
Who can help with the audio?
nevermind....looks like we were on the same wavelength Dennis. Thanks for filling in the blanks.
Best scene of the night :)
Dennis thanks for that transcript. Definitely makes you think it was Tom who left the cigarette. And isn't he a little careless with leaving the walkie-talkie?
Interesting how Ben and Juliette are still primitively dressed and she has not shoes on. Certainly seems like Juliette was in on the big plan to get Jack to operate from the beginning. And the "Shephard is cute" line foreshadows the triangle coming up with Kate/Jack/Juliette.
Looks like the theme of con artists is continuing with N & P.
Haha, very funny, Dennis!
Beddy-bye time. See ya tomorrow.
Now my question is the timeline of Juliett and Ben's scene in the pearl.
Did it happen before the others baited and caught Michael. Another sign of Ben's master of manipulation powers. Or did it occur immediatelty after Michael was captured?
maven said... Definitely makes you think it was Tom who left the cigarette. And isn't he a little careless with leaving the walkie-talkie?
He?
Juliet walked in with a walkie-talkie in her right hand, but it looks like she set it down right when they walked in. I didn't see one in her hand when they were talking, or on the way out.
last comment before bed. I hated P&N before, but now I really hate Paulo. Paulo had a chance to tell Jack and everyone what he observed in the pearl, and ultimately could have saved Jack, Kate and Sawyer from being captured and manipulated. He also could have saved Libby and Ana's lives by sharing the info about Michael.
What a complete dirt bag. Fitting he will die like one. (Guess I am a bad person too)
PS - Nikki looked good as a stripper. Bad character, great body!
last one....best line of the epi.
Hurley: no offense dude, as far as super powers go, your is kind of lame.
gnight all!
Diggity,
I wasn't saying that it was P**** in the pearl before Locke and Eko found it, just that someone was obviously there recently and they just seem to go...
Okay, no need to check that out.
Also when P**** (COMES OUT OF THE CLOSET) he picks up the walky and there is a cigarette on the table where he picks it up from. Upon coming back he could have smoked that one. Not that he was the one that was down there when that happened though.
DiggityDirge said... Now my question is the timeline of Juliett and Ben's scene in the pearl. Did it happen before the others baited and caught Michael. Another sign of Ben's master of manipulation powers. Or did it occur immediatelty after Michael was captured?
After capturing Walt, but before Michael. It all fits rather nicely.
We talked about the timeline a little bit in a previous post. I added some stuff about Michael and Walt. We'll have to revise our thinking, now that we have this new info.
I translated the events in "Exposé" from "days ago" to match the Lostpedia timeline:
Day 5 - Paulo and Nikki meet Ethan, Jack says "live together, die alone"
Day 23 - Paulo and Nikki find the plane and Pearl station
Day 32 - Paulo find the diamonds in the water
Day 44 - Michael, Walt, Sawyer, and Jin leave on the raft
Day 44 - Walt is kidnapped, the raft is destroyed by the Others.
Day 48 - Paolo hides the diamonds in the Pearl bathroom
Day 48 - Ben and Juliet watch the Swan from The Pearl, they plot to use Michael
Day 49 - Michael receives a message on the computer from Walt.
Day 50 - Michael secretly talks on the computer with the person claiming to be Walt.
Day 52 - Michael leaves camp to look for Walt, and is captured by the Hostiles.
Day 54 - Ms. Klugh asks Michael questions about Walt.
Day 58 - Rousseau captures Ben, Sayid takes him to the Swan
Day 61 - Henry is let out to eat cereal
Day 61 - Lockdown! Ben types the numbers into the computer.
Day 62 - Ms. Klugh tells Michael he can have Walt if he frees the prisoner and brings Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer.
Day 63 - Jack and Kate find Michael.
Day 64 - Michael frees Henry Gale.
Day 65 - Locke and Eko discover the Pearl station.
Day 71 - Locke, Sayid, Nikki, and Paulo return the the Pearl.
Ironic yes,iconic no.Catch up after work.
Good Morning! Okay, last night right before I fell asleep, this popped into my head…
After Par Avion there was this:
fenris said…Ange said "3. Christian Shepard, in the hospital, alludes to another method to help Claire's mother. Stating that taking her off life support was illegal (codysmom) mentioned this earlier, but that there were things he could make happen. WHAT THINGS? "
Okay, here's a theory and this is pushing things perhaps a bit sci-fi for some people, but bear with me. There are supposedly drugs that can sustain a body and make it appear that the body is dead. Such drugs have been the subject of films like Serpent and the Rainbow and are supposedly used in Haitian myths that are supposedly the basis for stories about Zombies. Yes Zombies, lol. But not in the sense that you'd normally think.
Now what if when using these drugs you could send a supposedly dead body to the island where the elctro-magnetic/whatever healing powers of the island could fix the body and essentially bring it back from the dead. This could be what he had in mind for Claires mum if he did indeed know about the island.
But that brings up another thing. Maybe that is what he had in mind for himself....
And also experimentalfilm said... this epi ties in nicely with my ultimate theory of things appearing dead but they're not . i'm hoping these things arent all coincidental .
Holy moly. Well to piggyback further, that is pretty much what happened to Nikki and Paulo. Also Artz had found “25 new species” of bugs on the island. So what with some hatches dedicated to what seem to be animal studies, new and strange species of bugs, and now paralysis…I am wondering if the original inhabitants of the island, through studies, have discovered new drugs, and/or found a way to harness the powers of the island...to cure zombies? Well no really though, to zombify and make someone appear dead then heal them with the island.
Also, I felt like I was watching some sort of Bizarro Lost. Like I should have liked it more, but I never quite got there. I still liked the episode, just kinda felt like I was looking at the sibling of a movie star…still fabulous and lovely, but just not quite the real deal.
Since "Expose'" has now aired, no spoilers here, so I am reposting this from previous thread...
Hurley's Numbers explained...and how they will unravel the Lost mystery.
The Clock - March 4, 1948 - ReVisited
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.lost/browse_thread/thread/10215663f572969e/27e89d4f0171093d#27e89d4f0171093d
The Nikki Paulo storyline predicted over 6 months ago. How? Follow the Yellow Brick Link :)
Hey all, another podcast listener and fellow Lost-addict from down under. My first post here ever!
I found the end of this episode to be deliciously evil and overall I enjoyed the episode (surprisingly).
Oh and I noticed a MAJOR continuity/blooper in "Exposé" which I just had to post and share with you. When Jack begins to speechify (about the water) hes talking to the crowd and we see Nikki walk up beside hurley (next to Artz), Paulo follows Nikki (behind Left) and behind Paulo we see Ethan. Hurley is watching Jack (in front of him). Then the scene cuts to Jack who comes down from his elevated position and walks between Hurley (who is on the left. oh by the way no Nikki or Paulo or Artz to be seen) and Sun and Jin (who are to the left). While Jack walks past Hurley, Hurley turns to continue to watch Jacks speech. Scene cuts BACK to Hurley who has Nikki, Paulo, Ethan, Sun and Jin to his left and Artz to his right... OOPS!
Y'all worked hard after I went to bed. Great job everyone. A few items.
Capcom said: Ha! Girl fight!! What, were they handcuffed together a-la Sidney Poiter and Tony Curtis in that escpaped prisoner movie? I didn't go back to check for cuffs, but if they're there it reminds me of an old Charlie's Angels episode Angels in Chains.
Even though the diamonds are buried, it's not like they can't dig them up when/if they are rescued. In fact, if possible they'd probably relocate the various remains like they do in wars.
Totengraber said: Best episode ever!! N***** & P***** are dead! And N***** gets killed 3 times! The only way this could be better is, if they wake up next episode and get killed again. So there's our Groundhog Day/Day Break reference.
My take on Smokey and the Spiders. N**** unleashes the spider on P****. P**** wishes the same would happen to her and wish fulfillment Smokey (aka the Magic Box) grants him his wish.
Dedjezter said: the biggest reveals were between our losties themselves. It's nice to see that they are beginning to trust each other enough to talk to each other ... Bad or Good. I was impressed. I agree the best parts last night were between Charlie, Hurley, Sun and Sawyer. Everyone certainly has Sawyer's number now. Hurley was Detective Columbo.
Diggitydirge commented that Juliet has been in on Ben's plan all along. I agree and can't wait to see her smacked down next week when her latest play will be to attempt to keep Jack and get rid of Kate.
The best part of the episode to me was seeing the guy sucked through the engine in HD.
I heard that Locke was watching Expose when Peter Talbott visited in TMFT. The reference to the Cobra in both episodes is the link. So Locke and Hurley like stripper detectives and Billy Dee.
The Pearl is on the Losties side of the line right?
CJ commented on Juliet saying the Pearl gave her the creeps. That reminded me of Isabel's statement that most of them don't like going to the Hydra either. I wonder if DI ran experiments on the Hostiles and that's part of the reason they don't like these old DI stations.
Dennis, great job with the Ben/Juliet dialogue and the timeline. The thing that still grates me everytime is that if they'd asked Jack to do the surgery before they took Claire, he would have eagerly done it. Why do they have to trick him?
I'll be back later in the morning.
WV=ozbabgoo
Good catch mr_cool. Those blue screened flashbacks really bugged me. Glad you're here, and I hope you'll post a lot.
Wanted to mention one more thing:
At the very beginning of the episode when N**** is filming, the bad guy has a long black ponytail. I was hoping he was TWM.
Good morning everyone. I really liked this episode. On a funny note, my husband walked in the room at the very beginning and looked at me and said, "Aren't you watching Lost?" I was like, yeah, I think so...
memphish said... My take on Smokey and the Spiders. N**** unleashes the spider on P****. P**** wishes the same would happen to her and wish fulfillment Smokey (aka the Magic Box) grants him his wish. My thought exactly.
I also liked the fact that Charlie fessed up to Sun. And Sun hitting Sawyer -- he so deserved it.
That was Lando Calirissian? Hilarious!
A few more random thoughts:
Ethan is so creepy, but I was delighted to see him again. Don't you just love how he turns something so mundane -- "I'm sure I could help you find some sweatpants that fit" -- into something that gives you goosebumps?
In terms of N&P "digging out," I do think its possible... they weren't buried in very hard or dense soil. It almost looked more like it was just sand. However, I don't think it's likely.
Also, the Ben and Juliet visit to the Pearl is pretty random. They walked all the way over there to look at one image of jack, turn around and leave? Strange.
And Ben gives the order to have Tom cover up the hatch with the plane. I guess they visited after Boone had already made the plane fall. I agree that it's a bit strange that Locke & Sayid missed what Paulo noticed.
Interesting stuff about the smoke monster sound. I didn't catch that... I'll have to watch it again.
memphish said... My take on Smokey and the Spiders. N**** unleashes the spider on P****. P**** wishes the same would happen to her and wish fulfillment Smokey (aka the Magic Box) grants him his wish. My thought exactly.
I believe Artz said at the start (When Nikki was flirting with him) that if the female medusa spider got out a 'wiff' of its pheramones all the males of the species would 'be here in seconds'. Which i guess explains why all those spiders showed up where Nikki and Paulo were... But I DID hear the smoke monster sound when the spiders approached... Connection? I dunno!
It's too bad, since N&P were just a spoof, that Nikki wasn't a guest star on "Walker, Texas Ranger."
Wouldn't a Chuck Norris cameo on LOST be great?
Or wait... maybe he's Jacob!
I love that picture tim.
Looking back at the episode now, I am glad that Charlie confessed to Sun one-on-one and that is now out in the open. I think that is about all I have taken from this episode. oh well...
mr_cool132 said...ut I DID hear the smoke monster sound when the spiders approached... Connection? I dunno!
The smoke sound was there, but also Artz did say that about the spider. Something I am not clear on though. He said he had already found 25 new species (or something to that effect) was the spider one? If so, how does he know what it does?
Also...diggitydirge said...Anyway, why did smokey come into play at the end to take part in Nikki's bite? Thoughts?
Well, maybe Smokey was not manefesting as the spiders this time, so much as it was recording and observing what was happening. I still think that the sound of Smokey is like data being processes (NYC ticket printer aside of course).
I thought the sound effect was just supposed to be the sound of hundreds of spiders attracted to the female's pheromones.
Engineer, I thought that too at first, but rewatch. It really really really sounds like the Smokey sound.
"What we have here is a failure to communicate"
Why didn't N&P just open their mouths about what they found/discovered? I guess we'll never find out, or will we? And they're not the only ones on that blasted island that don't talk.
Tim said...I agree that it's a bit strange that Locke & Sayid missed what Paulo noticed.
I don't think it is strange. It seems that the Hostiles have been visiting the station to watch the Losties. It look like they were not always careful in hiding the hatch - they thought Tom left the hatch open! The hatch was better hidden when Locke & Sayid were there. Plus they were distracted by the plane - they weren't "looking" for something like Nikki and Paulo.
engineer27 said... I thought the sound effect was just supposed to be the sound of hundreds of spiders attracted to the female's pheromones.
Why would they use the same sound effect for the smoke monster and for the spiders. I think the smoke monster WAS there, but I'm not sure what, if anything it did.
There is definitely the Smokey ticker tape sound in the background as the spiders arrive. I think Nikki hears it, too. She stops and looks around.
I could be wrong, but I thought I heard the sound earlier in the episode (later in the timeline) when Hurley and Sawyer first discover Paulo's body.
I'm sticking with the "hundreds of spiders" theory, and raising with "the sound engineers are getting close to the bottom the barrel in their sound library."
ib4uc AGREED! That bit about all that they knew and never mentioned is really making me mad...grrrr. I hated them before but now I am just irritated by how idiotic that all seems. No matter how shady of a person yopu are I would think that finding a set of doors in the jungle, another hatch, AND seeing two people that were not from the crash would warrent a mention. JEEZ! And also, you get a walkie-talkie and don;t bother to even have a listen...come on N & P. Good riddance. Although for a second I thought, "We better not see that classic horror shot of a hand shooting out of the sand at the end!"
erichI think I agree with you. I personally don't think Smokey and the spiders are connected. Specifically I don't think that Smokey was appearing as the spiders, but I did hear that sound, and I do think it may have been sent to watch. Anyone got a clip of that bit of the show (nothing on Dark UFO yet)?
Erich said...I think the point is they were too narrow-minded in their search for those diamonds, they completely ignored all the stuff that ended up being important to the major storyline.
Perfect.
Ange said...
Although for a second I thought, "We better not see that classic horror shot of a hand shooting out of the sand at the end!"
me too! I was waiting for it!
Codysmom and Ange, I think we might have gotten the hand in the sand shot if they hadn't already used it way back in The Moth when Charlie and Jack escape the cave in. I guess now that we've had our zombie episode full of people who are now dead, we won't need Season 7 after all.
Locke said to P**** We all have our secrets (or something like that)
Boy, isn't that the truth about the Losties?
I find it a bit unreal that so many of the crash survivors have a story of murder or strange deaths in their past histories
Next time I'm on a plane, I'm going to be wondering about my fellow passengers..
Good call, memphish
LOL, erich!
Going back to the timeline...
Day 44 - Walt is kidnapped
Day 48 - Ben and Juliet visit the Pearl, they plot to use Michael to get Shepard.
Day 50 - Michael talks to "Walt" on the computer.
Day 52 - Michael leaves camp to look for Walt, and is captured by the Hostiles.
Day 58 - Rousseau captures Ben, Sayid takes him to the Swan
Day 62 - Ms. Klugh tells Michael he can have Walt if he frees Ben and brings Jack, et al.
Day 63 - Michael returns.
Day 64 - Michael frees Henry Gale.
Day 66 - Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer and Michael leave for the Others' camp.
I don't think Ben was supposed to get captured.
If you take Ben getting captured out of the timeline, the plan still works. They had Walt, and were going to use Michael to bring Jack, Kate and Saywer straight to them. So why risk your life getting captured? He knew the Losties had already killed some of his people.
I think Ben was just making another trip to the Pearl to watch Jack, and got caught by Rousseau.
So why oh why didn't they take Jack in The Hunting Party or Jack, Kate and Sawyer? This is a plot point that drives me nuts.
Good Morning Locos
I disagree with all of you who think smokey wasn't at the scene of N and P's demise. It's plain as the day is long that you can hear smokey lurking in the background. Smokey might not have manifested itself as those spiders, but Paolo's wish that Nikki also get lit up was definitely the handy work of smokey.
Dennis, I agree with your best scene of 'Expose'. Nikki never looked soooo good. :-)~
memphish said... So why oh why didn't they take Jack in The Hunting Party or Jack, Kate and Sawyer? This is a plot point that drives me nuts.
Because Locke was there, and they didn't want him blowing stuff up :)
Good point memphish about that shot...hehehe. I had forgotten about that at the cave. MMMM Brains. I dunno about the zombie thing, but I think probably worth thinking about. Also, for the record, I am moving in with the campers that think Christian Shepard is on the island and not dead. Never thought I would move there, but after his comments to Claire about her mom, the empty coffin, and now paralysis a la spider, I am heading on over.
Erich said...
At least we got the answer to "one of the island's biggest mysteries": Why Paulo goes to the bathroom so much...
...I mean, diamonds are serious roughage!
AWESOME!
dennis said...I think Ben was just making another trip to the Pearl to watch Jack, and got caught by Rousseau.
I think perhaphs he and Rousseau have a deal going. I know it has been discussed before, but she is just too fishy, and the circumstances surrounding her constantly disappearing around the Others, and the fact that she has been allowed to have the run of the island really make me wonder.
Memphish, are you talking about when they had them surrounded by torches in the woods in ... S2? I agree, if they wanted them, they could have nabbed all of them then!
Yes Tim. It has always bothered me that Ben needed Jack for surgery was the reason for taking Jack, Kate and Sawyer. It just seems weak. And the timing clarifications in this episode continue to weaken it. Instead of taking J,K and S and sending Locke back with the message don't return you wait until you send Michael back to kill people and tip to Sayid that Michael's working with the Others?
I'm hoping there is still some pretty big reason they couldn't just have taken Jack in the very beginning if they really wanted him to perform the surgery. I'm waiting, do you hear me PTB?
Erich, Ben says he manipulates people using their emotional vulnerabilities or some such stuff. I guess Ben saw the scene where Kate gives Sawyer the pill and said "Aha, love triangle. I'll use that."
Morning all.
I enjoyed the episode. It was pretty straight-forward and filled in a few blanks. Most of the flashbacks involved what happened on the island. I don't think the N & P "story" contributed anything to our understanding of what's going on on the island. The only tidbit we got was seeing Ben and Juliette at the Pearl and learning she's been in on the con from the beginning.
N & P are so self-centered and everything they did in the 80 days they were there centered around themselves. They used everyone, even poor old Dr. Leslie Artz. The question now, are they going to stay dead? Is it possible to survive being buried with all that heavy sand on you and dig yourself out?
I'm in the camp that the spiders were the spiders. Dr. Artz made a point of the pheronome thingy and Paulo was bitten by a female spider and she just attracted all the males immediately.
Also loved all the references to other shows: 24 (perimeter sweep), CSI (the crime scene and Hurley playing detective), Heroes (Hurley to Desmond: "You've got a lame superpower.")
And Sawyer's: "Is there a forensic hatch I don't know about?" lets him continuing to Sawyerisms.
Agree Maven about the Sawyerisms. Is that week over yet? Does burying people alive buy you a pass out of the bet?
Ange said: I am moving in with the campers that think Christian Shepard is on the island and not dead. Never thought I would move there, but after his comments to Claire about her mom, the empty coffin, and now paralysis a la spider, I am heading on over.
Yes, my crazy theory of Christian is Him seems more plausible. Trance-like death states are possible and TPTB mentioned where's Christian's body this week. And, of course, daddy issues are a big think around that island!
dennis, could you give me the link to that timeline again?
Your observations make me think even more that Rousseau really is what she is (not an other and not lying, or at least telling things as she sees them).
Ben's getting captured wasn't part of the plan. It's another instance of why his leadership is not infallible and one of the many oops moments that will make some of the others want to dissent (I had more on the previous posts)
memphish said...
Erich, Ben says he manipulates people using their emotional vulnerabilities or some such stuff. I guess Ben saw the scene where Kate gives Sawyer the pill and said "Aha, love triangle. I'll use that."
agreed
Good morning, all!
Okay, I'm going to jump right in with a thought that I just had:
I've always thought that Ben wanted Locke to stop pushing the button, and that was ultimately his reason for getting "caught" and taken to the Swan. He wanted them to stop pushing the button, but not to be there when it happened. And I've finally come up with a reason for this!
Ben doesn't want anyone to leave the island. They have the sub, but it's really just for show. Ben wants everyone to FEEL like they can leave any time, but that's not really the case. He knows that if the Swan fails, then if the sub leaves, it can't ever come back - therefore, everyone will be trapped on the island (only a couple could fit in the sub, so most people would be left behind, and/or most people wouldn't want to take the one-way trip off the island). HOWEVER, it cannot be Ben that stops pushing the button, because then it will be his fault that no one can leave, and the Others will probably mutiny. So, he convinces Locke that there's no need to push the button and then escapes with the knowledge that it's only a matter of time until Locke tests that theory.
That's why Ben looks so pleased when the sky turns purple. He knows that once again, he has manipulated the situation perfectly.
Thoughts, anyone?
A commenter on Doc's recap on EW made an interesting point. Locke's nugget of "I was just wandering by" wisdom (so frequently dispensed in the first season and a half) that nothing stays buried on the beach has a certain significance by the end of the episode.
Since Locke is never wrong with those truisms, the question is begged: How will Nikki and Paulo reemerge?
And PS - N&P are most definitely a mirror to Jar Jar Binks. We just haven't entirely seen how their importance will play out. See my comment at EW.
Melissa_lossa, I think you are on the right track. In fact Ben and Locke may both be on a mission to restore the "purity" of the Island, only Ben is much more sneaky about it. Ending what was going on at that final DI outpost would certainly be part of that plan. The only problem is I don't think Ben knew about Desmond and the key. If Desmond hadn't turned the key what would have happened?
bookpolice,
I caught on Locke saying nothing stays buried on the beach, too
maybe they should dig up all their graves... vincent could start the digging!
Codysmom, I guess they've figured out how to teach Vincent not to dig. Maybe they can help you.
melissa, so do you think they didn't go into the Swan when it was just Desmond because they didn't know where the Swan was, even though they could view it from the Pearl?
memphis, hehe, my Hurley is actually getting better about his digging problem:) He's into tracking and chasing bunnies and squirrels now!
codysmom: Vincent knew they weren't dead by removing the blanket covering them. Maybe he will go back and dig them up! Also, with Locke saying earlier to P: "Things don't stay buried on this island." I don't think we're done with N & P!
memphish - I agree that Ben did not know about Desmond (which also means that no one was watching the Swan from the Pearl until the Losties arrived). He may have known about the key, however. If he didn't know about Des, he may have assumed that Kelvin was still alive, and that he had the key.
I am curious as to what would have happened if the system had just failed, without the help of the key. I think turning the key is what made the hatch implode on itself. Perhaps without the key, it would have exploded, but ultimately had the same affect on the island (just with more damage).
And here's a CRAZY idea - Locke, Eko and Des, plus some assorted items, were flung out into the jungle, with no memory of how they got there. I know that there is science saying that an implosion would send some things flying out, but what if the hatch EXPLODED in one timeline, and IMPLODED in another? When Des time-hopped, he changed events from one result to another, but for some reason, not everything made the transition?
Okay, maybe that's a bit much. :)
Don't forget that Locke can sometimes be wrong. He even said it himself.
Why haven't we heard the whispers this season do you think?
codysmom - Ben and the Others are shocked by Desmond's sailboat, which means that they didn't know everything that was happening on that side of the island. I guess they may have known about Des, and just bought Kelvin's story that the boast was gone, but I don't know.
So, I guess I can't decide between these three possibilities:
1) The Others knew the Swan existed, but not where it was.
2) The Others knew the Swan existed and where it was, but figured Kelvin had it all under control and didn't bother with it until they realized the Losties were inside (they may have found out from Walt that the Losties were planning to open the hatch)
3) The Others knew the Swan existed, knew where it was and knew that Desmond was there and that he had taken over from Kelvin (and they assumed that Kelvin was dead), but they didn't go there for some other reason yet to be revealed.
Do the whispers require, on a very technical level, communications technology? Technology that might have been wiped out by a certain purple sky event?
On a side note, I just finished e-mailing my super about a lease extension through fall. We're going to be moving, and it just dawned on me a few weeks ago that my apartment number is 108.
Well, okay, I always knew it was 108, but I never made the connection. (shame)
Here's a question about Locke's "nothing on this beach stays buried" comment - if he believes this to be true, why isn't he directing the Losties to bury the bodies in the jungle? If the beach is eroding that fast, won't all of the bodies eventually be uncovered?
My baseless theory on key-turning is that the consequences would have been far more dire had the key not been turned – perhaps the electromagnetism would have continued to increase, eventually wreaking havoc on the earth's magnetic fields... exploding the hatch stopped that process.
Maybe entering the code really did "save the world."
Or maybe that's what they want us to think. :) Regardless, we do know there was some real power in the hatch.
Dennis said earlier: Juliet walked in with a walkie-talkie in her right hand, but it looks like she set it down right when they walked in. I didn't see one in her hand when they were talking, or on the way out.
There's a screencap over at DarkUFO showing a man's hand putting the walkie-talkie down on the Pearl station tray. I still think it was Tom who left it there.
I think the Others knew the Swan existed, but did not know about the Incident and assumed it was abandoned or purged as were all the other stations. It seems inconceivable that the information in the Flame failed to mention the Swan. Wasn't the Swan station 3 of 6? My guess though is that the Others only knew of its primary mission, not its post-Incident mission and that they bought into the Pearl video's message that it was all an experiment. I don't know how DI managed to put people (keep people) back in the Swan post-purge, but I'd guess the huge number of guns in the Swan came post-Purge and the quarantine information was to keep the DI guys away from the Hostiles.
Maven, I think that screencap is Paolo picking the walkie up.
memphish said...Instead of taking J,K and S and sending Locke back with the message don't return you wait until you send Michael back to kill people and tip to Sayid that Michael's working with the Others?
They didn't tell Michael to kill anyone, he did that on his own. "The Hunting Party" took place on Day 52. They already had Walt and Michael at that point, and Ben had "the plan" in place. I don't Ben was there, and I doubt that Tom would want to go against Ben and change the plan.
Codysmom said... dennis, could you give me the link to that timeline again?
Sure. I don't know if the Lostpedia Timeline had been updated with all of last nights activities. If not, see what I posted above.
Codysmom said... do you think they didn't go into the Swan when it was just Desmond because they didn't know where the Swan was, even though they could view it from the Pearl?
That's what I'm thinking.
I love this line from Doc Jensen:
Because Lost just doesn't have enough criminals and con men on the show, it turns out that Nikki and Paulo were partners in crime
Hey Locos
Just skimmed some of the posts haven't read them all yet.
ib4uc
I said the same thing last night on the old thread. Looks like the A team isn't the only ones who don't share what they know.
erich
You are probably right they were very self serving.
Concerning Boone being gay. Yes I thing Shannon was being snarky but also truthful. D&C said in the OLP in answer to the qestion would we see the gay character in this episode they said yes but they wouldn't be jumping out of the closet. (paraphrased) If you remember back when Locke and Boone were digging up the hatch and saying the were hunting. Shannon asked him if Locke was his boy friend.
As far as Locke and Sayid missing the Pearl the plane was on top of it and Locke didn't find it with Eko until he had his vison. You would have thought Boone would have seen it when went to climb up to the plane.
Going to go back a finish reading the posts.
I think TPTB have already mentioned in their podcasts that the Others did not know about Kelvin or Desmond (and therfore did not know about the yacht or the key, either), and also did not know about the Swan Station until after the Losties arrived. I will assume this is true. This would also mean that the Others didn't discover the Pearl station until after the Losties arrived, either.
I don't think this idea is too far fetched. TPTB have hinted that after the "incident" happened, perhaps the existence of the Swan Station and it's purpose were made top secret by Dharma. If this is the case, all references to the Swan and Pearl stations in other places (like the Flame) would likely have been destroyed then, so the Others would not have known about all this.
Also, despite Ben's facial gestures during the Purpling, I don't think he's pleased that communications are down. It seems crucial for the Others to be able to find out information about the people that arrive on the island, and those that could potentially be recruited to the island. They need to be able to weed out the "good" from the "bad".
good list of possibilities, melissa
1) The Others knew the Swan existed, but not where it was.
possible
2) The Others knew the Swan existed and where it was, but figured Kelvin had it all under control and didn't bother with it until they realized the Losties were inside (they may have found out from Walt that the Losties were planning to open the hatch)
So, if they figured Kelvin had it all under control, does this mean the button pushing WAS important to them?
3) The Others knew the Swan existed, knew where it was and knew that Desmond was there and that he had taken over from Kelvin (and they assumed that Kelvin was dead), but they didn't go there for some other reason yet to be revealed.
Because they didn't have any dynamite?
Dennis said: I doubt that Tom would want to go against Ben and change the plan.
I can buy that, but couldn't Pickett have "walkied" back to Ben and say "Hey, we've got Shephard. Why don't we just grab him now?" I know Pickett didn't think highly of Shephard and Ben's plan to "trust" him, so maybe not. As I've said repeatedly and will try not to repeat again today and maybe it comes from being married to a surgeon, but hey, the best way to get surgery is to ask the surgeon to do it. It's all just a little too Dr. Evil in the first Austen Powers movie where they put Austen and the girl in the room with the sharks.
"no no, i'm just going to assume it all went to plan..."
Could it be that Ben didn't just ask Jack to do the surgery because then he would have to explain who the Others were?
By jumping through all these hoops, nothing had to be explained. We're crazy and mysterious was reason enough. However, if Ben had walked up to Jack and said, "Hi, I'm Ben. I live on this island and I need some surgery," Jack would have wanted to know who Ben was, how he got there, where he lived, etc.
Also, maybe Ben didn't go after Jack right away because he was waiting to get some leverage on Jack. If you're that used to manipulating people, maybe it wouldn't occur to you that you COULD just ask.
Lastly, is it possible that the Others just discovered the Pearl after Nikki and Paulo did?
How long is it going to take Sawyer or someone to turn on the Walkie Talkie and try to get some info. on the whereabouts of Kate, Sayid, Locke and Jack?
Melissa_lossa, I guess it could be hard to change your MO. Besides, don't they know that Jack isn't much for asking questions? He is usually the least curious person on the Island.
I think this might also play into that whole Christian Shephard is Jacob or HIM theory that's been going around. Maybe Jack isn't on the list because his father wants to spare him from whatever might happen to the people on the list. In his drunken conversation with Sawyer Christian refers to Jack as a "good man, maybe even a great one." This doesn't reconcile with the "flawed" monologue of Patchy though.
I guess the real answer to my question is that Ben has been going through his own inner struggle between their mission and his survival. My real guess is that he didn't decide he needed Jack to save him until after Claire was taken and Ethan discovered to be an infiltrator and by then all possible good will was destroyed.
Here's another question - if Jack was the only who could save Ben, and Jack was not on Jacob's list, does that mean that Jacob did not want Ben to survive?
memphish said... My real guess is that he didn't decide he needed Jack to save him until after Claire was taken and Ethan discovered to be an infiltrator and by then all possible good will was destroyed.
In "Maternity Leave" it seems pretty clear that Ethan is acting more or less on his own... Tom seems to disapprove of his actions.
Good question Melissa. It kind of plays into the idea that Locke might be the true Island priest, not I've lived here all my life Ben.
To follow up on my previous post, if the Others did not know the Swan existed, then they would have no idea about why entering the numbers was important. I think Ben actually did believe that entering the numbers was "a joke", as he says. Because of The Purge, he probably had a lot of disdain for Dharma's projects to begin with.
Going on with this train of thought, I'm assuming that Ben made a mistake by manipulating Locke into not entering the numbers. That almost triggered the end of the world, and I'm sure that Ben didn't want that to happen (he could have initiated the "end of the world" himself when he was loose in the hatch and did enter the numbers).
I'll go along with Dennis and assume that Ben being caught was an accident, and not part of a master plan to infiltrate the hatch.
If all this is true, then with the errors in judgment that Ben has made, it's no wonder that some of his people are turning against him.
Memphish, I'm also wondering what has happened to The Whispers.
Maven, thanks for clarifying what you guys are talking about when you are saying that this episode was slyly referencing other TV shows. I don't watch 24, Heroes, or CSI. What was the Hitchcock reference some people mentioned, though?
Engineer27, I agree that Tom was not happy that Ethan didn't complete his mission, but he'd already screwed up days before he took Claire. Ben said to make a list and get back with it in 3 days. Goodwin got his list back that fast. Goodwin's better than Ethan.
Morning all! I'm so frustrated because I'm so behind in podcast listening and comment reading. Don't have time to catch up right now-ugh- but just wanted to chime in this morning.
Whoa what a way to die?! I felt like I had just watched the Twilight Zone or a Hitchcock film. I was sort of laughing and gasping at the same time.
Now I have to say, I do feel a little less hate for the characters now. They actually were pretty interesting. The thing is, TPTB said this would be a game changer episode and that N&P would become iconic characters. Did I miss something?or are we to suppose that Paulo actually did start to cooperate with the Others somewhere along the lines? TPTB said they had a purpose for introducing those two characters in the story, so there has to be more to it than just an interesting fluff story about two more con men who die in an unusual way. There has to be more to the mythology and/or a connection with the Others that will turn up. Maybe ya'll are discussing it and I will catch up later...I hope. Ah well. Can't wait to read what you all are theorizing this week.
Ethan's job was doomed from the start. With all the secrets these guys have, it would have taken him an awful long time to figure out who is "good" and who is "bad"!
Codysmom
I should of know a dog owner would beat me to it. :-)
Iwas going to say maybe Vincent would dig up Niki and Paolo since he's the only one who knows they're alive.
When Tom meets up with Jack in the Hunting Party. Tom didn't have Jack, Locke, and Sawyer out numbered. There was Tom, Alex and an other man, and they were watching Michael while Tom was talking then they caught Kate.
I'm not sure how they did it but they lit those torches remotely maybe with a fuse. Jack was right in his belief that there were more of his group than Tom's. It would have been hard to watch two prisoners and try to capture Jack, Locke and Sawyer when there were also only three of them too.
Blueheron13, I think his job was just to get a list of names. Then Patchy could put them in his computer and then they can sort good and bad. It was 12 or so days into the Tailies time that they took the people on the list in the dead female Other's pocket. That first night they were just taking out the big guys to weaken the group, only they couldn't handle Eko.
TheBookPolice, I like your Jar Jar Binks comment on EW. I hate how their comments post upside down.
Hey Melissa_lossa, check out this picture of Chloe from 24.
Ok- one more thing before I'm off- forgive me if it's already been discussed-
Considering the fact that this episode was written with the fans in mind: When Hurley, Sawyer and Charlie were going through N&P's tent and they found the Expose script Hurley is reading it and shouts out "wow Mr. so and so was actually the Cobra." Sawyer says something like "so what" and Hurley respnonds that they had been looking for the Cobra whose identity was shrouded in mystery for 4 seasons, etc....
Was this a shout out to us re: Jacob's identity? Were TPTB going so far as to say that perhaps Jacob could be someone we already know?
scoutpost said...TPTB said this would be a game changer episode
Yes, that has been bugging me a lot really. I am thinking that maybe the game chabger is how Sawyer is being seen now. Everyone began to doubt him again after lying about knowing who Nikki was, and the perimeter sweep, etc... Also, Charlie coming clean with Sun and implicating Sawyer has tarnished him in her eyes as well. Maybe the tide is going to turn in how the dynamic between the "regular" Losties develops. Someone mentioned above, that it seems they are communicating with eachother a little better. Maybe the "game changer" is toward how they see Sawyer, and Charlie cleaning his slate so to speak?
Hi LoCos! Very interesting and helpful comments for last night's ep!
*Toten: I love your redneck from Otherville line! :-D
*Codysmom.....the family jewels...bwaaaahahahahahahha!
*For Juliet just being a "temp", Ben sure did keep her up to snuff on his most devioius plans. I guess they got closer than her original job reqs required after a while, causing them to have the "history" that Tom talked about. I can see why Ben would REALLY not want her to leave. She knows way too much, even more than the average Other/temp.
*Maybe if the Swan had just blown without the failsafe, the earth's magnetism would have switched poles, as scientists tell us that it does on it's own every 100,000 years or so. Where without it, the blast was more contained.
*Ange, good memory on what Fenris, et.al. predictd about zombie drugs.
*Welcome Mr. Cool!
*Intersesting Memphish about P****'s wish for her to get bitten and then voila! here comes Smokey. I'm open to whichever on this part.
*Concerning new spiders...I do not remember how Arzt worded this, but could he not have found known AND unknown species on the island? And the Medusa one was a known spider? Have to go back a view that. Although, I will hold to the thought above that he may have actually gotten bitten and then found out how it worked.
*Interesting theory on how the Others could have known about the Swan via the closed circuit TVs, but not knowing where it is. I'm good with that, and will allow that explaination to fit things together in my head until we are shown otherwise. Thanks! :o)
*Codysmom, don't forget the chaos theory mentioned in Jurasic, so no matter how planned out Ben's manipulatins are, there is always that one tiny chaos faction variable to throw a wrench in the works. And since the Lostaways are ont he island, to him there has probably been nothing but chaos. He's probably much more used to his plans always working out.
*TBM, good thought about Locke saying that nothing stays buried! And what some peeps said about Vincent digging them up! That would be great.
*I am really starting to get used to the whole "show now and explain later" technique that TPTB use in the lost episodes. I normally hate seeing things out of sequence, but for the short term points (i.e., those that get revealed by the end of the ep) I'm really warming up to that style. It kind of allows you that, "OOOOOOOOOh, that's why she did that" sensation within the same ep. Mind you, I don't like the long term waiting for answers! :o)
blueheron13
I agree completely with both of your posts about the others not knowing about the Swan and Ben's reaction about the numbers.
I believe they found the Pearl after the Losties crashed when they started infiltrating them. I think they stayed in Otherville until then. The Swan was on a need to know basis and it was buried pretty deep Locke and Boone found it accidently. It took about three weeks to dig it up or somethng like that forget exact time. Then they had to blow the hatch to get in. Yes there was another door but it was hard to find if you didn't know it was there. Hurley had a hard time finding it when he took Rose there the first time.
Yikes, man, sorry about the long post! Just trying to catch up. :-}
BTW, perhaps if the Others did not know where the Swan was, Ben had to plan to get caught by someone, so that they would bring him there? If he didn't know where it was, getting caught would be his only way of possibly being brought to it.
Also, (on the other side of the argument) do any of the tunnels on the map with tunnels show any going in the Swan direction? If so, then they could know the general area of the Swan.
ha, ha, memphish - I love it! Thanks for the photo. :) Chloe rocks! Except this season, but EVERYTHING on 24 blows this season.
And I agree on the lack of "game changing" in this episode. I was expecting something along the lines of "the island is actually in space!" "the Others are actually elves!" "oh my word, we ARE in a snow globe!" Something!
Blueheron13 said ...
I'll go along with Dennis and assume that Ben being caught was an accident, and not part of a master plan to infiltrate the hatch.
If all this is true, then with the errors in judgment that Ben has made, it's no wonder that some of his people are turning against him.
Then I have a feeling you might agree with what I wrote in the TLC podcast post-Episode 17 (March 27th):
So, here's an idea. What if the rift (or factions) in the Others is that there are those who don't agree with Ben's handling of the whole plane-crash survivor thing?
1. He sends out Ethan and Goodwin, now they're dead
(that didn't go too well)
2. He gets captured by Danielle who gives him to our Losties and the remaining Others have to figure a way out for him which results in more people dead (anna lucia and libby)
(that didn't go too well)
3. He gets Jack, Sawyer, and Kate over on Alcatraz presumably to get Jack to operate on him ending up in two more deaths (Colleen & Pickett)
(that didn't go too well)
4. He has Jack in Otherville to take care of his healing back, but this only brings Locke, Sayid, & Kate to their HOME to rescue Jack. and their sub gets blown up!
(that didn't go too well)
capcom - Good point that Ben was captured so that he would be led to the Swan, since he didn't know where it was.
As far as the tunnels go, there is a note on the blast door map, near the Swan that says: "multiple escape conduits blocked after incident." Perhaps there were underground tunnels that connected the Swan to the other stations, but after the incident, these were sealed to isolate the station?
capcom said...
*Codysmom, don't forget the chaos theory mentioned in Jurasic, so no matter how planned out Ben's manipulatins are, there is always that one tiny chaos faction variable to throw a wrench in the works. And since the Lostaways are ont he island, to him there has probably been nothing but chaos. He's probably much more used to his plans always working out.
I agree and I'm starting to think that one tiny chaos variable is named Danielle
codysmom said...I agree and I'm starting to think that one tiny chaos variable is named Danielle
Yuh huh!
Also, I loved your "that didn't go too well" post. Seems Ben's plans are less then perfect, but he hasn't been let in on that yet.
Codysmom,
Yes, I really liked your "that didn't go too well" list when I read it the other day. I should have complimented you on it sooner! Sometimes I theorize too much without acknowledging the other posts and posters!
blueheron13 said... To follow up on my previous post, if the Others did not know the Swan existed, then they would have no idea about why entering the numbers was important. I think Ben actually did believe that entering the numbers was "a joke", as he says.
Especially since he had already been to the Pearl station and watched the Orientation film, which says it was just a psycological experiment.
scoutpost said...TPTB said this would be a game changer episode and that N&P would become iconic characters. Did I miss something?
I think they will be Iconic for being buried alive. I think the game changing moment is Ben and Juliet in the Pearl.
Sayid'sgirl said... I'm not sure how they did it but they lit those torches remotely maybe with a fuse. Jack was right in his belief that there were more of his group than Tom's. It would have been hard to watch two prisoners and try to capture Jack, Locke and Sawyer when there were also only three of them too.
I think there were more hostiles than that. We saw the scene again in "3 Minutes", and IIRC, Alex and more others were there too. (lost-media.com is not working today, so I can't verify that...)
Melissa_Lossa said...
capcom - Good point that Ben was captured so that he would be led to the Swan, since he didn't know where it was.
That's a good possibility, too. It would screw up my Danielle idea. must go re-think:-)
Memphish,
Thanks, for some reason it never dawned on me that the lists Goodwin and Ethan were sent to collect were simply lists of names, not necessarily with their judgments about the people. I can't believe I overlooked that.
Scoutpost,
If I remember right, there were conflicting rumors going around about whether Expose or TMFT was supposed to be the mid-season "game changer". Now that we've seen both episodes, I think the game changer was Ben's "magic box" analogy along with the appearance of Anthony Cooper on The Island. I suppose TPTB will address this question soon.
Also, I completely agree that the reference to the identity of "The Cobra" begin revealed at the end of Expose's season #4 is foreshadowing to something big that will be revealed at the end of Lost season #4.
Sayid's girl,
Thanks for agreeing with my speculation!
blueheron13 said...
Codysmom,
Yes, I really liked your "that didn't go too well" list when I read it the other day. I should have complimented you on it sooner! Sometimes I theorize too much without acknowledging the other posts and posters!
I don't need a compliment (but thanks, it's still nice to hear), I just thought it would back up what you were saying.
Dennis
To be honest with you I don't remember seeing anyone else. And I checked when both episodes aired.
I've never believed there were a group of others, that it was just a maniulation.
So until I can get visual proof that aren't shadowy figures that can be anything. I will respectfully disagree with you.
Although I could be wrong.
I see on DarkUFO's site that Expose was one of the advertisements at one of the soccer matches in Desmond's flashes.
scoutpost said... When Hurley, Sawyer and Charlie were going through N&P's tent and they found the Expose script Hurley is reading it and shouts out "wow Mr. so and so was actually the Cobra." Sawyer says something like "so what" and Hurley respnonds that they had been looking for the Cobra whose identity was shrouded in mystery for 4 seasons, etc....
Was this a shout out to us re: Jacob's identity? Were TPTB going so far as to say that perhaps Jacob could be someone we already know?
I think you're right. But, I think that Jacob will be Ben.
Someone speculated that Locke could be Jacob, but I don't think I have enough RAM in my brain to process that one.
blueheron13 said...
I see on DarkUFO's site that Expose was one of the advertisements at one of the soccer matches in Desmond's flashes.
I saw that too, which is really pretty crazy when you think about it. That means they took the time to go in and digitally edit the footage of a soccer match to have that logo on the boards.
Don't let anyone ever tell you there's a "mistake" or "coincidence' in any of the minute details on this show.
Ha. That's good. I'm looking at the "Kronos Titandioxid" – get it?
That's nothing we've heard of though, so I'm curious of its possible significance (or if its just a joke -- Kronos -- Titan). I know Titandioxid is a real chemical compound, but I don't know what it does.
Re Hurley reading the "Expose" script and mentioning the reveal of who the Cobra was and that "they had been looking for the Cobra whose identity was shrouded in mystery for 4 seasons".
This made me think that TPTB were giving us a subtle hint that Jacob might be someone we already know (which adds to the Christian=Him theory).
Actually, my German knowledge kicked in, and I think it's German for "Titanium Dioxide."
Follow the trail...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_dioxide
Significance?
I do think that we were being told we won't find "HIM" until the end of Season 4 which is frustrating since HIM and his list I think is the key to understanding the Others and their behaviors vis a vis our Losties.
I love the list of things Ben isn't doing right in the eyes of the Others. I just can't wait to see who takes advantage of it.
I like the idea that Ben wanted to be captured to learn the location of the Swan. Good thinking.
I think it's also significant that the other inter-system access to the Swan is blocked and I'm betting DI did it as they were losing the Purge leaving Kelvin and Radzinsky to keep pushing the button indefinitely. I think this also explains the location of the Swan-branded food drop. I think DI is still making regularly scheduled food drops to feed the Swan inhabitants irregardless of the protocol at the Flame. I guess they are making also making food drops near the Flame or even near Othersville when the right code is entered at the Flame which explains the food at the Flame and at Othersville. Why two labels? I don't know, but we never saw non-Swan labels at the Swan.
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