Here's your tagline: Sun discovers the identity of her unborn child's father after being examined by Juliet. Meanwhile, Desmond allows an unlikely foe to help save the life of a mysterious new island inhabitant. Informal Poll: Who's the Daddy?
Wednesday, April 25, 2007
D.O.C. - Season 3, Episode 18
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2nd!!!!!
back later///
Any bets pre-show on the daddy? I have 2 theories. The first is it's Jae's but Sun won't tell that choosing to endure Juliet's medical treatment and writing off birth success as another Island miracle because otherwise Jin will kill her.
Theory #2 is that it is Jin's and that this will create a Catch 22 for Juliet. I think Juliet's mission on beach may be to find Colleen's killer and take him/her out. When Juliet learns that Sun is the killer but that she got pregnant on Island, Juliet will want to experiment on her on the off chance she finally succeeds so that Ben will let her go home.
Best theory I've seen is that Larry Birkhead is the father.
I don't want any of them to die. They are all good characters for th telling of the story. If any of them died, there wold be a big hole.
The question I most want answerd is the whole Dharma/Others/Rousseau bit and how it relates to the 4-toed statue.
And whoever mentioned it about 24, I agree about that kiss between the blond and the evil VP. I thought I was going to live up to my name (I nearly lost it! blech!)
memphish, I agree wiht your theory #2. LOL Larry Birkhead!
ummm
I think it might be Jae's but I hope not, and she will tell Jin.
hello.
Hey Chucklez3
How ya doin?
Hey Chucklez, Catch you when the show starts. In the meantime, what's the one question you want answered before Season 3 ends and who's the one character you think might die, want to die or don't want to die?
i've seen better days, but eh.
found out a friend of mine was killed in Iraq recently. served with him.
also got confirmation that dawn's been with the guy i suspected months ago.......from HER OWN MOUTH!!
i didn't even ask. she volunteered the information like i really wanted to freakin hear it!!
let's see, daughters now 1500 miles away, mom is dead, erik is dead and the crap with dawn. "yay me".
just sarcasm. no pity please. just an update.....
anyway............bring on the show already!!
One more hour!
That's a lot to deal with Chucklez. That's not pity, it's sympathy. There's a difference.
Do you have a support system? A local church maybe? I don't know where you stand religiously but if you could use support to help you through this rough time, a minister can help. If you're not terribly religious, maybe a UU church? In my experience they meet you "where you are" and don't get too preachy in their attempts to help.
At any rate, you're in my prayers.
nah. want to be by myself right now. done with people. done with "emotions".
they cloud judgment and impair "vision".
Thanks for the springboard Q and post, Admin.
Sorry to hear about your news Chucklez. I agree with Lostit, is there some system of support with military chaplains for people who are ex-mil-veterans? If so, you might try there too.
no. and no bases around this area, anyway.
thanks anyway. i'm fine.
Chucklez, don't rule out the objective viewpoint. Sometimes someone else can help us see our lives from a different perspective, and help us find another way out of the despair that we could not see.
At any rate, you have TLC to get you through until you find something or someone in your area. XO
oh, btw..........passed the nypd exam, but they sent my "report for physical" letter to my OLD ADDRESS (even though i changed it). therefore i got it 8 days too late and couldn't go. couldn't reschedule cuz they have a 7-day grace period. i got a t-shirt though, for my efforts. ugh.
oh well. yet another negative spot in my life.
Well, you know you can count on us to here and talk about LOST.
What question do you want answered most?
thanks though, capcom
Hi, you guys! Just got home from work and thought I'd check in. Here in the West, Lost isn't on for almost 3 more hours! I wish they'd put it back to where it was before, an hour earlier.
I sure hope that Desmond doesn't die. Or Sawyer!
I really hope that Jin is the daddy. BTW, I wonder how Juliet will be able to tell who the dad is. The typical method is DNA testing, I know, but wouldn't Jin get suspicious if he's asked to submit to a DNA test?
Friday's Child, I guess they'll do an ultrasound to measure the fetus.
Chucklez, sorry about all the bad stuff. Hang in there. It's weak, but it's all I've got right now. Hug.
lostit. no one has answers to our show. haha
just theories and believe me, we all have some.
my question though...........still, that is...........what the heck is with the four-toed statue????
OK so we've covered questions and characters to go, favorite theory about Sun's baby. How about what we might learn from Naomi? Anyone have a theory on that?
getting offline for now. MIGHT be back later.
enjoy everyone.
Happy Lost Day everyone!
Chucklez, check back in soon! :o)
Hey, Chucklez! Hope you're still logged in. I'm really sorry to hear about the lousy cards that life is dealing you. I've totally been there.
I resort to a trick that probably will sound a bit off-the-wall. When I'm confronted by one bad thing after another, and I'm totally at my wit's end, I'll read some story in the news about someone who's had something REALLY terrible happen to them.
For instance, we just had to bring one of our kids home from an out-of-state college after only two years because he couldn't hack the difficulty of that particular college. Now, we have $45,000 in student loan debt, and have absolutely nothing to show for it! He's going to enroll in the local university with a new major, but he may end up starting all over again as a freshman.
I was so upset at the $45,000 debt and thinking, "Gee, for that money, I could've had a really, really beautiful new car, which I badly need."
THEN, I read in the local paper that a young college kid in my town just got hit by a freak bolt of lightning as he was walking to his dorm!! He's barely survived, thank God, but has years of rehab ahead of him, and horrendous medical bills, not to mention the end of his college career.
That tragedy really put me in my place. Debt or no debt, my kid is safe and sound upstairs in his room, and not lying in a hospital bed.
Maybe this tactic of 'counting your blessings' won't work for you, Chucklez, but it's worth a try. I really like what capcom said about talking to someone who might give you a different perspective about things.
Well, that's my turn on the 'psychology' bandwagon. Hope I haven't offended you.
Sorry about the 'off-topic' conversation, but it sound like Chucklez needs it.
My guess is Jae's the daddy....
Hang in there, Chucklez!
10 more min.... can't wait be back later
I'll probably be offline till tomorrow night. Enjoy the show everyone!
Bye Lostit. See you tomorrow. 5 minutes! Yeah! It better be exciting, I'm tired.
I agree Friday, that's a great idea, and a excellent way to live.
And maybe we can learn something from our favorite show and "our mutual friend" Dez. I have not yet come full onboard to the "it was meant to happen" ship yet in my own life, I feel that too many times I picked door#3 when I should have picked door#1, and wrecked my own chances myself with wrong choices. But there is something to what we can get out of the series of events that mold our lives, like Desmond's, for better or worse. We just have to try to look beyond what happened, and try to see what we can make of it. Like, not looking at 'why' something happened, but at 'what' we can learn from it, and 'how' we can come out of it a better person.
OK, enough preaching from me too. Just make sure to check in soon Chucklez. You'll be in our prayers.
While some of you lucky fools get to go off and watch the show now, and I'm sitting here twiddling my thumbs for 2 more hours, I'm going to try and puzzle out all of these Biblical connections with the names: Jacob, Benjamin, Ruth, Naomi, and...and...any others I'm forgetting?
I'm going to go look at the book of Genesis...
Yeah, Capcom, the idea that something bad was 'meant to happen' is very hard for a person to swallow, especially when you're in the midst of the crisis.
I can't count the times I've made such stupid choices that I cringe when I think back on them. That's why I relate to Desmond so well. He can be such a big dummy!
ooooooooppppppsss... lol
Hurley rocks
I know Friday's Child won't look back here now, but Sarah is another Genesis name as in Sarah Shephard. And Isaac of Uluru.
I was giving Hurley props for sending up a flare and then it was a mistake. LOL.
Spanish and Portugese while both romance languages don't really sound alike. I'm just saying.
To pile on Jack, he wasn't really much help in the garden, was he?
Okay, thoughts from the opening sequence:
Jin's gotta be the father. They set up all of the "reminder" scenes to make it look as though Jae's the father.
This flashback looks to be better than most Jin/Sun flashbacks.
*Catch-22 spoiler*
Did that scene with Naomi remind you guys of Catch-22, with Snowden, who has the injury in his gut but gets treated for something else until it's too late? I wish they'd made the Catch-22 reference in "Catch-22," it would've fit better.
Hey, Capcom, I see that you're in Tennessee, but on the time zone map, your state is divided almost down the middle by the time line.
Are you on Central or Eastern time? If you're on Eastern, then you're watching the show...w-a-a-a-a-h, you lucky!!
Uh oh...time to count my blessings...ok...here's one: I get to see the show a whole hour earlier than Maven!!
Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!
(Ooops, sorry, Maven...me bad girl...)
I Knew it!!
OMGWTH?!?
Ladies and gentlemen:
Heeeee's back.
Say re-hey to our favorite friend with the eyepatch, Mr. Mikhail Bakunin.
I was never convinced he was dead.
ha!! not dead!!
Oh Snap. It lives... IT LIVES!!!!!!
OMG!!!!!!!! It's Patcheeeeeeeeeeeeeey!
Friday's Child, I'm in Central, in Memphis, but we get the show the same time 10 Eastern/9 Central.
makes you wonder, huh?
good ol' central time zone. miss it.
Ack!! Memphish, I'm still here!! I forgot that you guys are going to start commenting on the show, so I'd best get my fanny out of here!
And thanks for the 'Sara' remembrance, too, kiddo!
I'm outie!!
Knoxville just barely makes the Eastern time zone. :o)
So did Patchy activate the implant or was it the sonic fence... and can he hear?
And Juliet's hair is wavy, whatever that means exactly.
beat him down jin!!!!
"this branch has punctured her lung...." blah, blah...
ummm........thanks dr. obvious.
in mother russia, branch punctures you.
There are so many Patchy questions, I'll save them until later. I just want to say I hate Juliet. Why do they have to go alone? Why the secrets? Why did she answer only the question we learned the answer to 2 weeks ago?
I am SO glad that I didn't read any spoilers this week. I'm also glad that my nephews had just left, because I sure cussed bigtime when Patchy showed up!
Me too chuck, I wanted Jin to kick the cr#p outta Patchy! :o)
and why is sun being retarded? ugh.
"sure, i'll go ALONE.........into the dark, scary, other-infested jungle with you juliet....."
dad-blame scripts..
gotta get me a safe with tons of cash in it, too.
*beep, beep, beep, beep*!!!
my bull-crap detector just went off. like i'd buy that she said "thank you for helping me".
pffftt........come on dr cyclops.....
and here we go with more "bull".....of course, from juliet this time.
zzzz.........
nice. the scooby doo fake wall, activated by the lever in the gym locker routine!!!
ZOINKS!!!!
Why is there a hidden blast door guarded room in The Staff?
Also I wanted to remind everyone about the Flashback hair of doom. Sun's has curls. :)
Suspension of disbelief, Chuck. :o)
I don't trust Patchy either. They should not let him go. Oops, changed our mind, sorry, not gonna let you go!
She's not saying "Thank you," she's saying "There's a landing strip on the other side of the island!" *rimshot*
hey........like desmond "always tells the truth"........hahaha.
heal the chick and let jin beat down dr. cyclops.
oh god. there are 4 of you.
desmond's such an idiot.
"ah-owr wah-urd"......desmond the ^@#$!%$!!!!!
I thought for sure that Patchy would say, "Dasvidanya", or however you spell it. :o)
sweet.
i'm sure everyone's familiar with the old "if we were the last people on earth and had to repopulate the world", blah blah story, right?
now with a 400,000 sperm count.......good gawd!!!
Shouldn't they be asking for yen instead of dollars?
still ticked off that sun was all "trampy" with the other dude.
acewebguy: yen is japanese. they're korean.
and actually, "powerful" businesses in asia actually use american dollars a lot.
It's Jin's. I don't know whether to be happy or sad.
still don't buy into it.
something's wrong.
desmond is really chaffing my willie.
HA!!!!!!!
one of my theories is possible!!!
the dharma logo on the damn plane!! i'm telling you, it was intentional that they were sent on that plane and to that island. which explains why they were so damn low when the anomole happened!!!!!
so they are in purgatory, WTF?!!
So, the whole "The line Boone heard on the radio in Deus Ex Machina was "There were no survivors of Oceanic flight 815"" camp gets mollified in the end, even though they were wrong.
So, timeline mixing? Because I thought they'd squelched the whole purgatory thing.
Ok the whole time travel loopy thing I guess. I knda expected that though.
Ruh-roh! Here comes the sci-fi that no one wants.
and that was my other theory.
the purgatory thing
That ending was so funny I can't stop laughing.
WTF?!?
That was a huge twist.
What does this mean fro our Losties?
How did this take place?
Who was involved? (Widmore,Paik,Hanso,Dharma)
This is intense. Does this mean that the crash was always planned or did they just do a massive cover up?
Damn TPTB for always asking new questions!!!!!
HA!!!!
told you that you couldn't trust the damn producers!!!
smokey is the harbinger of death.
the nine stations represent the nine levels from dante's inferno.
and they have all committed each of the 7 deadly sins!!!
Maybe the Mittelos peeps placed a fake plane somewhere to represent 815 and throw the authorities off? That's why they were monitoring the 815 news on the TVs? Hoowee.
Chucklez, it absolutely wasn't a DHARMA logo on the plane.
1. It doesn't really look like it.
2. You can see the same markings on normal planes.
3. According to TPTB, the DHARMA logo wasn't fully created until Season 2 anyways
*But* and it's a big but, that doesn't rule out them being "brought" to the flight and the flight being crashed on purpose.
Peter,
I nearly pissed myself when I read this...
"in mother russia, branch punctures you."
I know Memphish, I can't believe that Hurley didn't say, "Dude!" :o)
yes it does. they have a picture of it with the entire cast and crew's signatures.
trust me. i'm not looking at what you think i am. i'll find the pic.
and the crash wasn't intentional. that part happened cuz of the anomole. but they were low cuz they were on approach to landing on other side of the island.
I still can't stop laughing. This either means the crash was staged, another crash was staged or it's purgatory or there are so many timelines I need a chart. With only 4 more episodes, I'll hang in there, but it's starting to go off the deep end.
um..what? i wish this woman would wake up and actually string together a coherent sentence. if she's english/aussie, why was she speaking italian at first? ugh.
haha..desmond is so strange here lately..i just dunno what to think.
kinda liked juliet this episode, then hated her, liked her again, thought i might hate her again..it's endless. =]
chucklez3 said...
"nice. the scooby doo fake wall, activated by the lever in the gym locker routine!!!
ZOINKS!!!!"
This gopt me rolling as well. You guys are on the ball tonight... lol
Probably been mentioned already, but I think the actress that played Jin's Mom was in the movie crash. She had to collect money after her husband was run over, and he was given the key to the people smuggling van by Daniel Dae Kim's character.
That was a either a very cool, very deliberate nod to a movie that was very much like Lost flashbacks, or the mother of all casting coincidences.
Great episode.
oh, and it's been forever since i've posted here..i'm usually lurking a day late looking at all your fabulous theories..but thought i'd join in tonight! =]
crazy episode.
still love hurley haha. i thought maybe he'd said "dude" instead of "what?" at the end lol.
saw there are some memphis, tn folks in here..me too!
Hey Megansayruh! Click on my profile and shoot me an email. I'm in Memphis and love to talk LOST.
Did anything happen after Sun said to Jules that she made her happy and the tear ran down her nose? OK, I'm not kidding, it's just that my station cut off the scene before the usual fade-out, with some stupid local advert! Tx.
Welcome Megan! :o)
Yeah what was with Naomi speaking several different languages and I wonder what she really said when Patchy said she said thank you?
Capcom:
Sun: It's Jin's.
(cut to black)
thank you guys..i'll be sure to email you soon, memphish! =]
i hope at some point, we learn more about Dharma and Ben and his past and stuff..that would make for a great episode.
i was thrilled when i found out the baby is jin's..i guess i'm just a sucker for a happy ending. although maybe not so happy for sun..i really hope she doesn't die. if the timeline continues the way it has been, 1 or 2 more seasons would coincide with her 5th month. hmm.
juliet=maybe not so evil? i mean, she's cooperating w/the others agenda but she totally hates ben/whoever that tape is for.
Thanks Aardvark!
Random musings:
My first thought on the bench in the FB was is this the Korean Mrs. Hawking, but no. I'm not really following this whole Korean honor/shame thing very well. I think TPTB are over-playing it according to some Korean viewers I've heard on podcasts.
Where are the Portugese speakers in the audience? I don't think that woman was speaking Spanish or Italian. I'm sure someone will know my tomorrow morning what she was speaking.
What happened to Desmond almost being a doctor? And how many jobs did Patchy have in the Soviet army? Wasn't he supposed to be a communications person?
Where did Patchy come from and where was he going? Was he going to The Staff to retrieve the cassette player?
There's an oblique OT reference in the story of Jin's parents. It's the story of Hosea who marries a prostitute and has children with her.
Juliet, I still hate her. She's sneaky, manipulative, and playing both ends against the middle for only her own gain. How badly did you want Sun to follow her?
So it was Sun who got Jin into her father's business.
Never ask a mobster for a favor even if he is your dad.
sayid'sgirl..thats what i'm saying. the actress who plays her is obviously british or aussie..yet when she woke up she's speaking spanish or italian or whatever. i admit, my first thought was portuguese which would have made me happy haha. then all of a sudden she wakes up and doesn't know where she is or why she's there (?)
OMG!! What does that mean?
And I was wrong.... it's Jin's!
Patchy said something about healing is different on the island, so does he mean he healed up after the run in with the fence? Stupid Des, letting him go. When Naiomi sees Des I think she looked scared or something.
This is a semi-horrible question, but why can't Sun (and the other pregnant women on the island) just have an abortion? Body rejects an "alien substance" remove it and the immune reaction should stop.
Yeah, without good medical conditions it's dangerous, but the alternative is certain death.
memphish..my first thought too! i was like..what is up with all these random people popping up knowing everybody's life story? haha.
also thought they overplayed the shame issue..although i don't know enough about their customs to know for sure. i mean, mr. kwon seemed like such a kind man..i was so sad when he met w/sun because i just thought it was horrible that he basically raised jin all on his own and now jin is ashamed of him. i'm a little over-emotional today, anyway haha.
darkaardvark, i don't think it's a horrible question at all..it's actually something i hadn't even thought about. i guess at first, juliet basically sacrificed them just to see how far they could go and if she could make any advances toward making it possible to conceive and give birth on the island. if they had aborted, she would never make any medical advancements or be able to try new things. just my two cents!
Good question, dark, but I'm sure Ben wouldn't allow it..
Juliet hates Ben, so maybe I don't hate her now
Aardvark, that thought crossed my mind too. BTW, has anyone seen that movie from the 70's called "It Lives" about these monster babies that fly out at birth with pointy teeth, and kill people? Hilarious, but tonight's talk also reminded me of that. :o)
megansayruh said...
"um..what? i wish this woman would wake up and actually string together a coherent sentence. if she's english/aussie, why was she speaking italian at first? ugh."
My guess is that she is someone who fids people and has to go many places to do this so she knows a lot of languages. SHe was dying and incoherent so she just kept pleading in different languages hoping someone would understand.
So, do you think if Sun got away from the island, she'd be OK?
But Codysmom, I love Ben. He's my favorite guy I love to hate. I just hate Juliet. She's doing nothing to foil Ben and his plans at this point. Merely saying I hate you in a room that's probably bugged, not very impressive.
That's what I thought too Ded.
The multiple language thing reminds me of our first encounter with Rousseau. She was asking Sayid in multiple languages where Alex was.
Hey everyone, Ive been lurking for a few weeks but have been a bit busy to post. Here's my thoughts/questions:
1. How do we know the chick's name is Naomi? I didn't hear that mentioned in this episode or the last.
2. I don't think there's any way a plane as large as Flight 815 could land on that island. It would require a massive amount of runway space.
3. Still don't think it's purgatory. If it was purgatory, what would Naomi be doing there? I think there's a decoy plane involved somehow. Maybe this is me just hoping it's not purgatory ... though it is a neat little theory to answer several questions. Darn TPTB!
4. What business would people have getting pregnant in purgatory, anyway?
5. I love the constant use of "Requiem for a Dream" in the teasers and commercials now. Good stuff.
codysmom
She might be alright is she left the island. Remember Juliet wanted to take a woman off the island to see if the conception problem was on or off island but Ben wouldn't let her.
oh, um...
6. Was Patchy really having a hard time hearing? I still am wondering how you can fake your ears bleeding – the foaming from the mouth thing you can fake pretty easily, but blood from the ears? Maybe he did take some serious damage from the fence, just not enough to kill him.
i agree ded..i guess when you're dying, you're not really worried about what you're saying. you just want someone to help you.
what i don't understand is why she's all "desmond" like she KNEW she was going to find them..and then wakes up and is really confused. i'm just iffy as to why she's there..she seemed to be all geared up to do SOMETHING after vacating the helicopter or jet or whatever it was.
i dunnooo..i'm confused. i guess more will be revealed next week [if we're lucky!]
lol tim..when he said "What?" to charlie i think he was just antagonizing him..he seemed to be hearing just fine when he was helping naomi [which to answer someone else's question, they probably got her name on a casting list on lostpedia or something].
but i KNOW when she said something and patchy said "Uh..she said thank you for helping me" she said something else. maybe now that she's moved onto english, she can clarify that.
Okay, this was a very cool episode. At the end, when Juliette was making her recording, I so wanted her to turn around and see Sun standing right behind her. Get her, Sun!
Hey Tim! And.....I guess that the island healed him?? Way back when, the thought sort of ran across my head, that perhaps if Bea and Patchy went thru the motions of killing themselves, they might come back alive. I bet we see Bea running around somewhere soon.
I just had another thought...
Maybe she is an other as I think Chucklez may have said or eluded too and she is bringing information on Desmond because the others don't know who he is or how he got there and they are afraid because he is someone who might have someone looking for him. Which is a huge problem if they went through al that trouble to hide the crash and cover it up.
Megan:
I'm guessing she has basically no short-term memory being in a critical medical state as she is.
So she wakes up, and sees Desmond. That's her mission, so it makes sense.
But she doesn't remember that when she's lucid again and sees, not Desmond, just Hurley. So she was wondering what the heck was going on.
when juliet went back in there to do the tape recording and they played that ominous music, in my head i said "if she does something evil, i will absolutely smash my television." lol. but then she just taped herself making a record of sun, i guess? although what "samples" is she trying to get, and why one from kate? is she preggers too? =[
I agree, there's no way that she actually said "thank you for helping me." Nice try, Patchy!
And tim, I'm also liking the Requiem music in the promos. That song is kind of overused in trailors and whatnot, but it works really well here.
Still Alive! I knew they should have taken his pulse or buried him or something.
Secret passage! No working crash cart, but state of the art sonogram machine. At least we know the budget priorities now.
No survivors? what are we, chopped liver?
"I've got good news and bad news..."
Weren't we talking about Sun's hair needing the perm of doom to hold a curl?...must've been flashes before our eyes!
Another pivotal episode.
In the words of John Locke: "We're gonna need to watch that again".
that makes sense, dark. thanks =]
well, hopefully she'll play at least a minor role next week in answering some questions..the previews for next week looked really exciting!
This episode is making my head hurt worse than the Desmond ones. So the Others can't die? Wrong because we saw them send Colleen off on the burial fire or did we? This is all zombies isn't it. :)
Hm, good responses. As always, I appreciate your theories. Keep it up, I'll look back in tomorrow!
I also want to point out that Jin has some nice moves - and I mean hand to hand combat moves, not the other kind (although he must have some nice moves there, too)!
Maybe the longer you're on the island the quicker you heal. Maybe that's how Patchy survived the fence.
But what about Ben Sayid's Girl? And where is Sayid? That man needs to be shoving bamboo up Juliet's nails.
I think the Others can die - Colleen and Pickett seem to be evidence of that. We just never got any conformation that Patchy was dead. I think the blood and foam were real, but not fatal. He did still have some dried blood on his ears. Maybe he was only "mostly dead" and the island healed him.
Amused, didn't the crash cart break?
If the Others aren't *exactly* DHARMA, they wouldn't exactly be able to get all brand-new equipment from off-island, even if they still had contact with the outside world.
And even if they are DHARMA to an extent, we also know that the DHARMA initiative failed. So they could've left them there.
So I'm guessing it's not a matter of "sonograms are more important than shock carts" but rather the machines that they had left that work.
wondering if Picket is alive, too
Ded and Chucklez, at one point in the episode I felt like parachute girl (it's the ABC press release before the last episode that tells us her name is Naomi) knew or was looking for Patchy. Maybe that's why Patchy was in the woods. He saw the beacon, heard the chopper and came looking for her. Makes sense. Maybe she came when Locke entered 77.
Mostly dead as in The Princess Bride... lol
Thats what my theory is. Mostly Dead.
Maybe the island won't heal Ben because he was born there. Kind of a reverse immunity. Ben's body is used to the affects of the island, so the healing powers don't work on him.
megansayruh - Most cultures in Asia place a lot of value in honor and shame, moreso than we westerners would expect. Americans give people second chances if their mother happened to be a prostitute. Many Asian cultures would disown a son for much less an offense than that.
-Were the folks who thought maybe all the Others have an exploding head implant just proven right?
-Did the Losties actually board Flight 815? If so, where are they now, and are they truly alive? If not, who did? And who would have organized the switch, since it would appear that the Others didn't know anything about the crash when it happened.
-Why have TPTB been so coy about how they refer to "the parachutist" and "Naomi," almost as if they're two different people?
-Juliet states that the Losties have been on the Island for 90 days, but Lostpedia's timeline states 88. Was Juliet approximating, or is there something else going on?
-There are now either four or six days until the Indian Ocean earthquake and subsequent tsunami, and five episode hours of Season 3 remain.
How can you get a fertility doctor, but not a new crash cart? Maybe it was just the case that they only had old stuff over on the Hydra.
http://flytristar.tripod.com/images/delta-gb/j_wilkinson/jw09.jpg
off to bed peeps.
oh, good idea, memphish - it never occurred to me that her visit could have been triggered by the 77 code. Interesting.
Hee, hee, Ded - too bad they couldn't find her one of those chocolate covered miracle pills!
memphish
I know I wonder about Ben too. Maybe it has something to do with him saying he's been on the island his whole life. I don't think Patchy and some of the others have been. Rose and Locke of course haven't been.
DarkAardvark, yeah Juliet said the crash cart was broken for a while, but really how do you do testing you know endangers the lives of the subjects without a basic piece of medical equipment like a crash cart?
Something just doesn't ring true about the whole crash cart thing. Just too convenient. Maybe Coleen wasn't dead, and they sent her off to be renewed? We never did see what they did with Pickett, it was only reported that Juliet killed him.
I smell fish.
Heh, I guess Patchy wasn't "really most sincerely dead", as the Oz coroner did not inspect him. Just keeping with the Oz theme in Lost. :o)
Oh, and that wasn't Italian. "Help me" in Italian is "aiutarlo." In Spanish, it's "ayudarme," and in Portuguese it's "ajudar me." Very similar, the last two. Hurley could translate that easily, but it is in no way similar to Italian.
Mikhail was BSing the Happy Campers the entire time. His business is information, and if he thinks he's the only one who can understand something, he'll obfuscate it so there's no way anyone else could learn it without his help.
I also doubt strongly that parachutist/Naomi said "thank you." I'll need to watch again to get a good idea of what she might have said.
book police: "did they board 815"? kinda' my point.
i think it's very plausible that they were being brought to the island to begin with. the island is not on course with where they "say they crashed" (different direction altogether).
plus, if wreckage was spread somewhere and they said they found it and there were no survivors, then no one will look for them. therefore, they take the plane to the island. they were on approach for landing, however the anomole happened and ripped the plane apart cuz it was too close.
and i still believe that ben's (and the others') reactions were more of "it broke up", rather than shock that there was actually a plane there to begin with.
so anyhoo.......with that said, i will stick to either of my theories.
THIS one........
or the purgatory (dante's inferno) theory.
the routes they're taking, could definitely happen.
and off to bed.
later.
DeDJeZTeR said...
Mostly dead as in The Princess Bride... lol
Love the Princess Bride!!!!! I've been mostly dead all day....
Seriously, though. All things in the episode are pointing to the miraculous healing powers of the island, but I'm still wondering with Patchy if it was an acting job. There's a picture of Patchy's ear before he goes through the fence and you can see there's something there like a theatrical device to show squirting blood. Didn't know if it was a production error at the time, but maybe his demise was just staged (easy to put something in your mouth for it to be foaming like that-good acting job). Ms. Klugh's death also staged? The ones who have stayed dead (that we know of) are the ones killed by our losties (Goodwin, Ethan, Colleen)?
Is it possible that the Losties did not board the flight 815 that they thought they did? Or did something happen midflight? Is it significant that only Kate was conscious when the plane crashed? In season one, she claimed to have seen the whole thing.
If they did not board the flight they thought, did someone gather these specific people together to stop the others? Ben asks for dossiers on everyone and watches the reports on the news, so he seems to believe that this was just a plane crash - so who planned it?
If the whole thing was staged, what was with the other victims of the crash? WERE there any other victims? No one was buried on the beach, and all of the bodies seemed to still be in the fuselage, which was burned, and then convieniently washed away.
One thing that has always stuck with me was the girl, Joanne, who drowned in season 1. Afterward, someone (I think it was Boone) mentions that she wasn't even supposed to be on the plane. She had been hurt during a diving trip and was going home late (or early, I don't remember which). It always struck me as odd that the one person who wasn't supposed to be on that flight drowned and disappeared in the ocean - they never retrieved or buried her body either.
Wow, this ended up quite long. :)
Night all. I'm sure some of this will wake me up at some point tonight. Why is Patchy alive? Where did parachute girl come from with Desmond's picture? Why is it fresh in her mind that Flight 815 from Sydney crashed and everyone died?
I hope Maven, Scoutpost and the other left coasters figure it all out by the time I get up in the morning.
Wow! Catching up now. My initial thoughts...
Patchy's back! I guess the island healed his blood-spurting eardrums. Why would he need a satellite phone? Just to keep the losties from having it?
If Patchy is still alive, who else not really dead? Ms. Klugh? Goodwin?
Poor Jin and Sun. Jin forced into working for Sun's dad because Sun was blackmailed and had to borrow money from her father.
Juliet still working for the man, begrudgingly. What kind of list is she making now?
Naomi says the flight 815 was found, no survivors. I smell an Other Coverup.
What kind of sample is Juleit going to get from Kate?
LOL, capcom, Patchy wasn't "really most sincerely dead",
Now I've got that stupid munchkin song in my head!!!
Me too Codysmom, I hate myself. :o)
Mrs. Klugh might still be alive, and maybe Pickett, if Juliette's trial was staged. Ethan is dead for sure because he was buried by the Losties. I think Goodwin is, too - remember that Eko and Jin stumble across his body when they are looking for Michael. I think at that point he'd been dead for a few days - he was either really dead, or an extremely dedicated faker!
Melissa, I don't think that Hurley was supposed to be on that flight either, was he?
Now that you mention it Dennis, I bet Patchy was dying to get his hands on that phone, since all his equipment got blown up, and the Purpling, etc.!
LOL
I guess Patchy was only "merely dead"!
Belated hugs to chucklez. hang in there buddy.
capcom - I'm torn on Hurley. Yes, he did almost miss the flight, but that stewardess let him on after boarding was over, so maybe he was supposed to be there. The same could be said for Jack - there's no way he should have made that flight without the proper paperwork for his father's body, but they let him on anyway.
Okay, everyone, it's late and I'm outta here. See you in the morning!
G'night. :)
hmm. i'm getting very sleepy..and my brain kinda hurts from all this info.
i think everyone else is dead. i mean, i would love to know why patchy is running in the jungle and stealing phones..and maybe that will be explained. i think pickett and colleen are dead..ms. klugh, i can only hope so.
maybe it's fresh on naomi's mind because it only happened 90 [or 88, to be exact] days previous. we've been dissecting this and watching for so long..it's hard to believe ALL this crap happened in 3 months. it was probably extensively covered on the news, much like disasters are covered today. even when someone mentions columbine, we still know exactly what they're talking about 8 years later. just my opinion.
the whole "there are no survivors" thing..i cannot even begin to theorize. seriously. my head might explode.
I agree with dennis:
"Naomi says the flight 815 was found, no survivors. I smell an Other Coverup."
I also agree, dennis, poor Jin and Sun!
I'm starting to have brain malfunctions myself. Great conversation tonight folks, and thanks for all the laughs! Can't wait for tomorrow's bigger laughs after we've slept on it.
Peaceful dreams to you especially tonight, Chucklez.
I was just thinking maybe Naomi is an other and Patchy was looking for her and she just plain lied about flight 815.
Just about everybody lies on this show.
the timeline split into two possible realities. In one, the plane crashes in the ocean, no survivors.
In the other, it breaks up over Lost Island and the rest we know.
Naomi is from the other reality. And our beloved Others can find out everything they want because they have access to all the possible timelines, and they can exploit all the possible universes.
brain cramp!
You know if you can heal from a punctured lung in a day and a half. I shutter to think about N**** and P**** being alive in the ground and tring to dig out and their fingernails get all bloddy and then heal so they can continue and can you suffocate, if all things increase on the island.. i.e. healing sperm count, then we can assume that blood cells produce faster and thats why you can't bleed to death. I think you have to be mortally wounded in order to die. Boone was FUBAR so he bled to death. Eathan had what four bullets in his chest. That's gonna kill you for sure. You must have to have serious internal problems in order to not survive.
I don't know. Maybe it was just sheer luck that Libby, Anna, and Coleen died from only single wounds.
I'm Co-sun-fused1111
I can picture TPTB sitting together laughing like evil scientists, rubbing their hands together saying "this will fry their circuits!" as they plot the next chapters.
Mwah ha ha
There is such an intriguing pseudo-spoiler from an interview with Michael "Ben" Emerson.... I wish I could post it. It's almost speculation on Emerson's part, but it could be informed by script reality. I won't post it, but it's in an interview with The Trades magazine from 3/21/07. Easy enough to find.
Hello everyone!
Great things from everyone so far. DarkUFO has a supposed translations for the things Naomi said in the Screencaps section.
memphish said... I just hate Juliet. She's doing nothing to foil Ben and his plans at this point. Merely saying I hate you in a room that's probably bugged, not very impressive.
LOL. You're too funny!
megansayruh said... i agree ded..i guess when you're dying, you're not really worried about what you're saying. you just want someone to help you. what i don't understand is why she's all "desmond" like she KNEW she was going to find them..and then wakes up and is really confused. i'm just iffy as to why she's there..she seemed to be all geared up to do SOMETHING after vacating the helicopter or jet or whatever it was.
She was sent by Penny to find Desmond. When she woke up the first time, she saw Desmons, and said "Desmond". The next time she wakes up, she sees Hurley (everyone else has run off), and is like "I thouhg i found Desmond.... who the hell are you?"
ABC radio said it was a Helicopter, and that she was a passenger.
TheBookPolice said... megansayruh - Most cultures in Asia place a lot of value in honor and shame, moreso than we westerners would expect. Americans give people second chances if their mother happened to be a prostitute. Many Asian cultures would disown a son for much less an offense than that.
Plus there's the whole Honor Killing thing.
TheBookPolice said... -Juliet states that the Losties have been on the Island for 90 days, but Lostpedia's timeline states 88. Was Juliet approximating, or is there something else going on?
LOL! As much as I don't trust juliet, I think I'll take her word as canon, over what's in Lostpedia.
memphish said... How can you get a fertility doctor, but not a new crash cart? Maybe it was just the case that they only had old stuff over on the Hydra.
They don't really need a working crash cart, because no one get sick on the island. No one gets cancer (except Ben ;), so I would guess no one has heart problems either. Or maybe we'll find out why the crash cart was broken in another flashback.
Darkaardvark said... If the Others aren't *exactly* DHARMA, they wouldn't exactly be able to get all brand-new equipment from off-island, even if they still had contact with the outside world.
They were able to bring Juliet the fertility expert to the island, you don't think that they would have brought state of the art fertility equipement too?
chucklez3 said... http://flytristar.tripod.com/images/delta-gb/j_wilkinson/jw09.jpg
AHHHHHH! That is NOT a dharma logo!
I was also thinking...
When Patchy ran up to everyone, it seemed to me as if he was expecting someone to shoot a flare.
Thanks luckyguylikeme
That leads me to a thoughtI had earlier.
I was wondering who the tent people were in last weeks promo and when we were going to see them.
I thought they might be others but wasn't sure of that.
Maybe they're with Naomi.
You're right lucky. I forgot about the flare. I think Patchy was expecting something or someone.
But why did she have Desmonds picture? Unless she was bringng info on him like someone else said.
I'm also thinking that in the promo for next week's episode, when Locke says
"I snuck into Ben's tent and kidnapped HIM,"
He's referring to Cooper, and not Ben. And to go along with a commenter at The Tailsection, I'm also getting the feeling from the trailers that the twist isn't that Jack is dirty, but that everyone thinks he's dirty and they betray him due to this unfounded suspicion.
Sayid'sgirl said... Thanks luckyguylikeme That leads me to a thoughtI had earlier. I was wondering who the tent people were in last weeks promo and when we were going to see them.
This is pure speculation, but based on the previews, I think those are where Ben's people are living now.
Also I think our suspicions that Cooper is the Sawyer are going to come true. Or maybe Locke just thinks Sawyer is a cold blooded killer for some reason. Maybe he knows about his past too like he does Kates.
Dennis said...
Sayid'sgirl said... Thanks luckyguylikeme That leads me to a thoughtI had earlier. I was wondering who the tent people were in last weeks promo and when we were going to see them.
This is pure speculation, but based on the previews, I think those are where Ben's people are living now.
Yeah, I also think that Ben's people are the people living in the tents. If Naomi is truly not alone, I don't think she has that many people with her.
Dennis
That's what I thought too when I first seen it but for some reason I'm not so sure about that. This show makes you suspicious of everyting.
Lucky
You're probably right but like I said I'm suspicious of them.
I probably go with my first thought. But it's easy to second guess yourself with this show.
I'm obviously getting to tired to type. I'm misspelling words and leaving them out all together.
Catch ya all tomorrow.
nighty night, Sayid'sgirl. And to the rest of the LoCo, too.
I can't wait for the podcast! Passafist and Goog, I hope you took great notes.
nighty night...
Sayid'sgirl said... I was just thinking maybe Naomi is an other and Patchy was looking for her and she just plain lied about flight 815. Just about everybody lies on this show.
Amused2bHere said... the timeline split into two possible realities. In one, the plane crashes in the ocean, no survivors.
OK. Here's what I think is going on with Naomi's comment.
First let me say, Flight 815 wasn't brought to the island. The Others didn't know about it before hand. There was no time travel or worm hole. They are not in purgatory.
Oceanic 815 accidentally crashed on the island - because Desmond didn't push the button.
Ben and Mikhail research the "missing plane" to find out all they can about the people on board. They know the plane has crashed, but the rest of the world doesn't... yet.
Ben can't risk a search party finding his island, so they create a cover-up. Plant a story that the plane has been found and there are no survivors. What? Is Diane Sawyer going to fly out to the middle of the pacific to verify this herself?
Or, they fake a plane crash. It seems like Mittelos Bioscience would have the resources to stage a fake plane crash. They certainly are masters of disguise - fake beards, secret rooms, fake deaths, and decoy subs.
Here's a link to that picture of Patchy I was talking about earlier. Look closely at his left ear..
http://bp2.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/Rfjbq5BZNUI/AAAAAAAACcA/n1MebQCKM4A/s1600-h/patchy.jpg
(It's from Dark UFO's site)
Well just finished here in AZ. That Juliet...what to think of her?
Ok going to catch up- BBL
Dennis, I whole-heartedly agree with that theory. You said exactly what I was thinking :)
And with that, I am off to bed. Night everyone!
Don't worry memphish, maven and I will have this all solved by the time you get up tomorrow....or maybe not. haha
A long while back- I don't remember which episode, we were discussing that maybe punching the numbers every 108 minutes (and the subsequent effect it had on the EM field) caused time on the island to change- either speed up or slow down. Do we not think that anymore? My reaction at the end was that maybe time on the island is much slower than the real world. Ok try to follow me, it's late: The Losties are still alive, but lets say they all die eventually. It's at that point that 815 is found and they now know there are no survivors. It's just that the outside world is months or years, etc. ahead of the island. I'm too tired to hash that out.
Do you think Juliet is on the beach to get info on all the women to find out if any more are preggers? I mean that is what they wanted to know when the plane crashed. what did Juliet say about the sample from Austen- had she gotten it or not? Maybe they are wondering if Kate is pregnant, maybe they did set that up after all. Ange you were right?!
Re: the Locke/Sawyer preview. I definitely think Locke was referring to Cooper and that he wants Sawyer to kill him for him- I think that Cooper= the real Sawyer and that Locke has made the connection.
Anyone else notice how the Losties are getting better at communicating with one another? There were several lines that began, so and so told us about this. I thought that was funny. Also, you have to hand it to Sun, she was asking the right questions and getting answers more than any other Lostie ever has.
This is why it is so sad to be on the west coast. I'm the only one left here.
I agree that Patchy must have seen the flare and was expecting someone maybe "Naomi". Remember in the previews to this week they said something like- "something is coming to this island but is it salvation or anihilation?" Perhaps Naomi is a harbinger of death. Maybe she is not alone and is bringing an army of people to kill the Losties? Ok maybe I need to just go to bed.
I'm still here :)
I'm here!
Hi Maven!
scoutpost said... The Losties are still alive, but lets say they all die eventually. It's at that point that 815 is found and they now know there are no survivors. It's just that the outside world is months or years, etc. ahead of the island. I'm too tired to hash that out.
How would Naomi get from the future (where she knows about the dead losties), to the past, where they are still alive? If she went "back to the future" would they be dead again? What if one of the went with her?
Trying to bring time travel into it just makes things too confusing.
scoutpost said...Do you think Juliet is on the beach to get info on all the women to find out if any more are preggers? I mean that is what they wanted to know when the plane crashed. what did Juliet say about the sample from Austen- had she gotten it or not? Maybe they are wondering if Kate is pregnant, maybe they did set that up after all. Ange you were right?!
Yes.
JULIET: I wanna go home.
BEN: That's not our agreement, you need to stay here until your work is finished.
JULIET: It's impossible. The mothers keep dying.
BEN: Then we'll find more mothers. Who knows, maybe there's even one on that plane.
Well glad I'm not the only one still up- although I'm getting ready to go to bed.
See Dennis- I told you I was too tired to figure that out. haha
Guess we can take a poll: Is Kate going to be pregnant or not?
Goodnight everyone. See you tomorrow.
It's late and I'm tired, so I'm not going to grab quotes from you guys...just trying to remember all the comments and add my own:
1. Sun questions whether Jack is working with the Others or not. Kate defends him still, but then begins to have doubts.
2. The Flashback: Heavy on the shame. Does explain that Jin working for Paik was really Sun's "fault".
3. Finally, Sun asks tons of questions! But then wimps out at the end and doesn't follow Juliet back into the Med. Station.
4. What's with all the different languages from Naomi?
5. OMG! Patchy's back! Still has blood on face from fake death. Charlie recognizes him...apparently Kate, Sayid told some details of what happened when they were gone!
6. Patchy: "Already died once this week." LOL
7. Patchy sure had a lot of jobs in the Soviety Army...Communications expert AND Field medic!
8. Why does Sun trust Juliet and follow her into jungle at night and alone? Guess the desperate mother protecting her child thing kicks in.
9. Did Patchy translate right? Why trust him?
10. Juliet sure knew how to get to the Med. Station easily.
11. Why was there a hidden room with nursery stuff? Why was it a room to die in? Didn't Sabine die on the operating table bleeding?
12. Patchy alludes to time is different on the island when telling how long it will take to heal a punctured lung.
13. The Others should bottle their sperm counts and sell them to infertile women around the world. They'd make a ton of money! LOL
14. OMG. Juliet almost seemed sincere in this episode. But she definitely seems to be coerced into working with Ben.
15. I don't know what to make of Naomi's Oceanic 815 was found with no survivors! I tend to go with a set up...maybe the Others orchestrated it? Maybe some of the wreckage got away from the island and was found and no survivors were found, so it was assumed all where dead.
So, Memphish, I don't think the westcoasters are going to have all the answers for you guys! LOL
scoutpost said... I agree that Patchy must have seen the flare and was expecting someone maybe "Naomi".
It's reasonable to think that if the Losties heard the helicopter crash, that the Others may have heard it too. In which case Ben may have sent Mikhail to investigate. Hurley shooting off the flare gun certainly made it easy for him to find them. However, he probably was expecting to only find a crash survivor all by themselves, not have the Losties already there. He must be wondering how the heck they found her first. :)
Hey, Dennis: I'm tired and will try to go to bed, although my head is still spinning! See ya all tomorrow morning...
WooHoo! 200 comments in one night!
scoutpost said... Guess we can take a poll: Is Kate going to be pregnant or not?
I'm guessing pregnant. We know Sawyer is capable, since he already has a kid by Cassidy. Since the island makes you 5 times more potent, I expect Kate will have triplets, or even quadruplets. :)
maven said... 11. Why was there a hidden room with nursery stuff? Why was it a room to die in? Didn't Sabine die on the operating table bleeding?
The nursery stuff was all the stuff from Claire's nursery that they hid there when they "evacuated" the station.
Sabine was probably the first woman to die since Juliet arrived. It probably happened during the original 6 months she was supposed to be there. it sound like there were eight more deaths since then.
maven said... 12. Patchy alludes to time is different on the island when telling how long it will take to heal a punctured lung.
I think he is just saying that people heal faster on the island, not that time moves faster.
Good night everyone!
Wow! Good stuff after I went to bed. Unfortunately, I don't have much time this morning, so I'm going to hit and run post and trust the rest of you to figure it all out by the time I get back this afternoon. Sorry for the length.
1. I can't believe Scoutpost, Dennis and Maven didn't figure everything out last night. :)
2. Satellite phone and Patchy. 2 things. Keep it from Sayid and the rest of the LOSTies and use it yourself to restore comms.
3. As to who is dead, who alive--at this point, it beats me.
4. How did the flashback story relate to the Island story? Sun has been selling out to daddy to protect Jin since week 1 of marriage. She was fed up with betraying him, so she had to know who the baby daddy was? She went pretty fast from not trusting Juliet at all to revealing to Juliet alone terribly intimate details of her life.
5. The math of Sun's pregnancy hasn't added up in my head yet. Given the dates Juliet said, Sun should have had her period on-Island pre-DOC. Why all the mystery then?
6. How is Juliet going to sample the rest of the women? Sneaky blood sample removal in the middle of the night like with Claire back in Season 1?
7. I think Patchy was looking for the source of the flare. I don't know if they were expecting it or not though. I can't decide whose side Naomi is playing for.
8. Split timelines and time at different rates make my head hurt, but it could be right. I liked Dennis' scenario as well. It seems to me though that if you wanted to fake Flight 815s crash it would have crashed in the middle of the Pacific and the wreckage would never be recovered. Okay, every explanation of what Naomi said at the end makes my head hurt.
9. Ded's speculation about Pikki is hilarious. This Island really messes with people. Men are 5x more potent, but pregnancy kills women. Quite a little joke.
10. As for next week, I'm not a big fan of the preview. After all these weeks of not knowing about A Coop and Locke, I don't really care that much. I'd rather know what's up with Juliet's evil plans (okay, they're Ben's; I paint with a broad brush) and parachute girl. Also why does Locke need Sawyer to kill him, assuming the implication in the preview is accurate? Be a man and do your own dirty work Locke!
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